Let's Chat... Adding colour to funerals (with Jen Watson)

#098. Let's Chat... about the amazing part that colour can play at a funeral.

Let’s Chat episodes are with guests who have experience/expertise in a particular area of loss. In this episode, I (Claire Sandys) chat to the very lovely Jen Watson, a Funeral Celebrant in Kent.

I first heard about Jen on our Funeral-Director-Work-Experience trip to North Wales. Back then she was known as Jen Wilkinson, but now she has a new name, a new patch to work on, and it was great to finally connect with her.

Jen setup JW Celebrancy in 2021 after qualifying as a Funeral Celebrant and has cultivated a very vibrant way to brand her services - which I was eager to chat to her about.

Jen offers empathetic and colourful services for bereaved families to help them share their loved one’s final life-story. She has a beautiful way of involving colours in a funeral (which leaves you desperate to get a glimpse at her wardrobe) and shares how she's developed this, and why she's never led a service in full black.

It's a great conversation that will make you smile and well-up, and inspire you when it comes to funeral planning, as well as give you a whole new take on how other people celebrate their loved ones when they die.

For more about Jen, visit her website or social media:
https://jwcelebrancy.co.uk/
https://www.facebook.com/JenWatsonFuneralCelebrantJWCelebrancy
https://www.instagram.com/jenwatsonfuneralcelebrant/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jen-jwcelebrancy/ 

And Jen is also the proud owner of Herman and did this great video on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/p/C2KIfpXs4dA/

For my previous chats with Funeral Celebrants & Funeral Directors, visit: https://www.thesilentwhy.com/letschat

For Loss 43/101: Loss of life for a Funeral Director:
https://www.thesilentwhy.com/podcast/episode/7abc6ce6/loss-43101-loss-of-life-for-a-funeral-director-jonathen-harty-and-chris-lord-brown

Transcript

Claire: 0:00

Hello there, and thanks for joining me for another episode of Let's Chat on The Silent Why. A podcast exploring how and where we can find hope through grief and loss. I'm Claire Sandys, host, blog writer, published writer... yep, that's right. In fact, the book I'm a contributor to came out last week in the UK. So check out 'Praying Through Infertility' by Sheridan Voysey to see more about that. And I'm also now a Herman maker. Yep, my little podcast has expanded to handmade products that you can buy for people in your life that are going through a hard time, whether it's a bereavement, hospital treatment, anxiety, stress, loneliness, anything else. Herman is the perfect companion to send your loved one. And you can find out more about that at www.thehermancompany.com. I'll put the link in the show notes. Today's Let's Chat guest, who's actually already the proud owner of her own Herman and you can see that on her social media because she did a lovely video about it, is the very colourful, and the very wonderful, Jen Watson. In these Let's Chat episodes, I talked to a guest who has experience or expertise in a particular area of loss. And from each guest, I'm building a metaphorical tool shed of equipment to help us face and get through loss and grief. So the last question I asked them is, what their tool is, and today to the begun, in fact, I'm going to expand my shed to fit it in. Fortunately, you can do that very easily with metaphorical sheds. So back to today's guest, Jen Watson is a funeral celebrant in Kent, although she was actually somewhere else when we first made contact and even had a different name. Now, she's not a wanted woman by the police or anything, but should explain more when we chat. Jen set up JW celebrancy in 2021, after qualifying as a funeral celebrant and has cultivated a very unique and vibrant way to brand her services, which I've been eager to chat to her about for a while now. As her website says she offers empathetic personal and colourful services for bereaved families to help them share their loved ones final life story. I've spoken to a few funeral celebrants and funeral directors on the podcast so far. And I can't believe the variety and uniqueness they all bring to planning, hosting and leading funerals of all shapes and sizes. But it's also really interesting to hear the stories they have, and how they personally process and deal with being around grief in this way. This is a great conversation about how Jen loves to bring out cherished colours in any funeral she's part of, I know it's a chat that's gonna make you smile, laugh well up or maybe even shed a tear because it's just wonderful. So grab a cup of tea or coffee or maybe a white hot chocolate if it's as cold where you are as it is here and relax with me and Jen, as we chat about adding colour to funerals.

Jen: 2:37

Well, I'm Jen Watson, and I'm a funeral celebrant. I'm nickname Jenny Wren as my childhood nickname. And I'm based in birchington in Kent, so leave services across the sort of family area as it's known locally. So I'm known for leading personal and colourful funeral services.

Claire: 2:59

Lovely and why Jenny Wren where's that come from? Ah, so

Jen: 3:03

yeah, I think most journeys are known as Jenny Wrens kind of affectionately. And so I just grew up with my mum sort of naming me sort of Jenny Wren, or if we saw a wren bird she'd below those are genuine. So yeah, sort of carried on. And that's why my business logo is rendered on a book. So it's a book where one side is black, one side is white. One to represent the sort of the person who's died or the child or baby that's died and the other the kind of family and friends they have to just keep turning pages keep living their life, and wrens. Even though they are tiny birds, they are known for being one of the loudest. So as a funeral celebrant, I am really a family's voice piece as I get to share their loved ones life story. So that's the Jenny Wren sort of part of me.

Claire: 3:59

I love when logos have got so much meaning to them like that. There's something really lovely I heard someone say recently there should always be a story behind logos and branding as a perfect example of pulling it all together and so personal as well.

Jen: 4:10

And people catch on to it. They'd send me little Ren things or thank you cards were Rennes on and I got a painted rock recently and the lady had spent ages painting like a ran on the rock and so I think people pick it out as they're out and about.

Claire: 4:26

I also saw on your website that you mentioned you like lint white chocolate, is that something that you can do that because you put it on the website. I've

Jen: 4:33

only ever had one white chocolate basket get but that is my downfall. White chocolate balls straight from the fridge there my ad zone calendar go to.

Claire: 4:44

So when I first connected with you, it was through our trip to Wales, you were in a different place different country and you had a different name. So you've had a lot going on since we first connected so just tell us a little bit about that kind of move and what's been happening because I know some people listening to this will have known you in Wales and will probably be wanting to You know, what's happening with you now?

Jen: 5:01

That's right. So I first connected with you as Jenny Wilkinson was my surname. So I'm now Watson. And I was born and brought up in north Wales. So that was you entered my home place really and connected with the funeral directors and celebrants and they woodland burial ground as well. So you kind of brushed it against people that I knew well, but I knew I was in transition moving out of the area, as my husband got a job as the senior minister in a church in Burlington Kent. So we have relocated in August. So we've settled the kids in so complete fresh start and fresh start for me as a funeral celebrant too, because I lost my kind of go to funeral directors and families. So I've had to start kind of from scratch and be the newbie again in a brand new area. So my wheels are beginning to turn now. So it's been a good positive move.

Claire: 6:00

That's a lot of change a lot of things to navigate there in one go. So tell us a bit about the funeral celebrant life. When did that start? Have you always been one? Is that a new thing? How did that come about? Well,

Jen: 6:09

my background is in children and young people in counselling. So I was back in north Wales one of the first teenagers aged 16 to be trained as a Childline counsellor, at the time it was based in real north Wales. So I got quite used to being on the phone, hearing people's stories in their worst moments and tuning in that active listening. So those sorts of skills as a young teenager carried through lots of different work that involved people, people on their most difficult days, counselling, volunteering and family based things. And so during the pandemic, I had the big life change. And I was actually listening to a podcast where a pastor had retrained as a funeral celebrant, and I hadn't a clue what a funeral celebrant was at that point. And as she began to describe how she supports families, when they don't want a minister, it was literally as if a light bulb went off inside me. And it was like, this is self employment. This is all my passions of kind of hearing people meeting new people, the creative element of putting something together, the presenting something, all those different things coming together really. So yeah, I completely changed my life at that moment, trained through the pandemic, while the kids were being sort of homeschooled. And yeah, began in north Wales. You

Claire: 7:41

know, I'm sure there's some people listening who just don't understand wanting to spend most of your time around funerals, grieving people lost death, very sad stories and situations. What is it about it that drew you to it? And what what do you love about it?

Jen: 7:56

Yeah, I think that's a really good question. I think it's the dwelling with someone having that kind of right to just be present with them in their pain. It's a real honour and privilege just to be there on their worst day. And some of the services I've led and the heart brokenness, in that moment, just to be present, like parents whose child has died, it's just them and you in that venue, it's just such an honouring that it kind of Yeah, that active listening, that being there, sometimes no words are necessary. So my heart has always for the brokenhearted, on their difficult days, whether it's listening to them being there, and also the people who just don't have hope or faith in that time, either. I know with firearms, going through difficult things and know what I would lean on what I would do. And actually, when you're around people whose hope has gone, and they're in trauma, and have got big questions, it is a real honour just to be present. I remember one bereaved wife saying to me, I guess at this point, faith would be helpful, but she just couldn't lean on it. It didn't work for her. So for me, it's that deep down, just being there, being present in the grease in the pain without judgement, and just listening. Yeah,

Claire: 9:19

I've spoken to a few people who've worked in different areas like this with people that are really heavily grieving. And there seems to be this assumption that if you do that kind of job, it means that you're tougher, you don't get affected by these things. Other people sort of say, Oh, I could never do it. I'd get too emotional. You know, and I don't think having spoken to a lot of people in these kinds of jobs. That's the case. They're not any tougher than anyone else. They have got ways of dealing with it and coping with it. But it doesn't mean they're not affected by these situations. So how do you cope with the emotion?

Jen: 9:46

I am not a robot. I have deep emotions and probably quite an empathetic person. So I can feel things quite sort of deeply. If I were to go numb in this job, I think I'd Need to change jobs. So those emotions that I feel around families are keeping me grounded. But I do have a sort of professional voice on my shoulder that kind of says to me, this is not like your grief. But I do cry a lot. There are moments where I walk away from a situation and I just go, this is absolutely rubbish. And I can't help but feel emotional. It does affect you deeply. And grateful. I've got people around me that support me, a husband, who lets me sort of process things without needing to know ins and outs and details, I can come back from a family and just go, Oh, this one is just cut me deep. And he just listens and empathises. But he can't fix it, he can't get involved. And I, I lean on a lot of sorts of counsellors myself, having sort of trained through that way. So I think that's really important that self care, taking breathers between things, and everyone has their different thing that helps them top up. Again, I'm quite an outdoorsy girl. So just the things like going for a walk, journaling, praying, all sorts of things, and white chocolate limp balls. All these different things use but it's not easy. And I think if you approach it with a hard heart, you're not going to support families very well.

Claire: 11:27

Yeah, that's a really good explanation of, of the difference between being hard and actually dealing with it in a healthy way, as well. Because it's really lovely to hear that you do let yourself cry. And you do let yourself feel those emotions. Because I think for a lot of people in these kinds of jobs, especially the men probably have had that pressure of not being emotional, they suppress it, and then it just builds up and it comes out somewhere else. And when we interviewed Jonathan Hardy, the funeral director, he said that he you know, he's now allowing himself more to if he if he wants to shed a tear, he sheds a tear for it. He doesn't repress that anymore. I think that's really healthy, but very difficult to do, especially as British people. It's stiff upper lip, and you know, don't show weakness. So it's really healthy to hear you're doing that and counselling as well, you know, one amazing place to be able to process things. And I think we're getting a little bit better at that. Yeah.

Jen: 12:13

And it's asking, why was that a trigger for you. So I did a service once where it was absolutely fine. And in that moment of committal, and I said the person's full name for the final time, I realised it was the same first two names as my mom. And I had not realised preparing the service. But in that moment, it caught me thinking, this could be kind of my mum, and I had to sort of in that moment, be like, it's not my mom, it's not my mom is okay, got through it. But then after the service, it was like, oh, I need to just cry that out, because it triggered. And I think that's where professional help is really important. Because it does sometimes pick those things from your past. And it would not be good for me to say to that family, oh, kind of those names are exactly the same as my mom, though, he has to be very sort of tuned in and sensitive as well.

Claire: 13:06

Well, thank you for doing this kind of work. Everyone who I've spoken to who does it says it's a privilege. But at the same time you're carrying, you know, the cost of it each time you walk into these situations, and having to be professional, put your own stuff to one side while you do that. And, you know, that's that's not an easy thing to do. And a lot of people wouldn't be able to do it. So it's a real gifting as well. So it's lovely to hear that people can do it. And one of the things I'm really interested in specifically with you is that you can't really look at any of your branding or website or photos without seeing just big splashes of bright colours. So tell me a bit about why you've chosen that and how that kind of is incorporated into how you do your funeral celebrant sing that word, and

Jen: 13:46

a bread scene. Yeah. I am a daughter of an artist. So I think as a child, I naturally observed colouring things and the changes of seasons. And as my mum would notice things and create things, colour was always sort of part of my life. And I've got like deep memories of a child of so like mixing the primary colours and secondary colours and being determined trying to make purple and not make it go brown. And all this sort of paint mixing and memories of sort of painting walls colours, where you'd go to the DIY stall and you choose your colour. And this machine would make it up for you with a bit of this and a bit of that. So colour, I think is a natural thing as part of me. So when I approached funerals, is fairly black. So I, I tried to be black and traditional and I'm respectful and all that but I found I just wasn't me. And so when I met with families and you hear their stories and you find out their favourite colours or all sorts of things coloured Just came to the forefront and I would naturally choose from my wardrobe, their favourite colour as part of my outfit or my like blazer or if it was a football team, personalise their service by wearing the football team colours. So colour I think just naturally started to feed in so I I don't think I've ever led a service now head to toe in black Wow, it's become something I've been known for. And I think some people appreciate it. Sometimes I wear colours as a surprise. I won't say to a family I will wear green because it's their favourite colour. But I hear about kind of what colour flowers they've chosen and different things like that. And often a colour comes as a forefront. And they talk about oh, she always wore like teal or turquoise or that sort of matching outfits and so you hear it. So I naturally absorbed it brought it into my style of sort of funerals and owned it really so recognise it's quite different. And I know funeral directors and staff at crematoriums and different venues often try and guess about the person's funeral I'm about to do by looking at me. So they'll be like kind of Oh, so you wearing kind of this and you're wearing that like I did one recently where my dress was covered in dogs. And it had like a pink blazer so we'll have our did she have a dog? Does she like dogs? And so sort of, I hope it brings about a different sort of conversation about funerals more approachable. Yeah, I did a service last week and PINK was the theme. And the funeral directors had pink ties. So my Blazer was sort of pink and looking out across the crematorium filled with people they all approached wearing pink in different ways. Some women had put like pink earrings in pink scarf or pink coat there were men with pink ties or a pink flower or rose on their blazer it was so lovely and united everybody and the service beforehand because I arrived early was all black. The service after us was all black but it distinguished this particular person and their networks and family and friends and I was bumping into ladies in the toilet before the service may have pink on our site. Are you here for so in so service so I think colour is bold. But it unites people it identifies people he brings a bit of joy in the moment as well in funeral so yeah, I've naturally gone down that route of showing people's personality through colour.

Claire: 17:46

And I guess if people you know book you like I said you just looking at any of your you know, website or anything or just seeing you you can see there's a vibrancy, you know, even now you've got amazing yellow blazer on flowery dress, you could see that you're gonna bring that to it. So I guess it's not a surprise to anybody when they book it that you're, you're kind of colourful, and I desperately want to see your wardrobe. How on earth do you keep up with work colours?

Jen: 18:08

I do confess I have one like a work wardrobe. You open it in it is just blazers of the rainbow. Wow. And lots of dresses have all sorts of different things. And earrings are my major things see in the big green lens on today. So I am a woman who collects sort of things. So yeah, my internet shopping is is interesting. And I think my husband rolls his eyes and he sees like another piece of clothing arrive. I'm not I can't help it. The theme is stars. And I saw this incredible style dress that would work brilliantly. So I think I'm getting to the point now where I've probably maxed out all themes and colours, and I've got everything great,

Claire: 18:51

what a great excuse to shop. It's literally part of your job and you can't let these people down because it's like you said it's the most very important day for them. So what a great reason to have to go out and buy buy clothes. I love it. Have you ever come across any time when the colour hasn't been welcomed or appreciated? Or is it always worked its way in and you know been a source of joy?

Jen: 19:10

Yeah, I when you meet with a family, you recognise what sort of personality what sort of theme of slaver they want their service. I think the joy is when you work with excellent funeral directors, they pair you up. So you mentioned the guys in north Wales that they would know the type of services that I would not be rightful and I recognise I'm not everyone's cup of tea. So I don't think I've had a bad pairing in that regards. Sometimes it's sort of like ah, I walk away from a service going I should have worn like baby pink rather than fuchsia pink that would have worked better with a flower display and so my own thoughts. I had a slightly different hue going on. That most of all, I think is funeral directors know your, your kind of style of service so they know what to expect. I think some people are quite relieved that it's not all black. So services, particularly for younger people, they seem to have by don't want everyone in traditional black and to have someone who's comfortable leading a service in Converse trainers or all sorts of things I've worn I've led a service in walking boots, and all sorts of different things. So yeah, that personal touch. And I think when they recognise it's not just, Jen wears wacko colours for no reason, they realise I'm reflecting the person that they are there for. Yeah,

Claire: 20:40

I mean, reading the testimonials and things I've seen, you know, on your website and about you, it does stand out that the families are so appreciative of your commitment to, you know, the colour that was a favourite colour. And it's a lovely idea. I love the fact that, you know, I spoke to at Hickey on a previous podcast episode again from north Wales. And she was talking about, you know, the ways you can do funerals, like the big funerals that you can have, like she talked about a circus tent and, and then the smaller ones. And so not everybody can muster up the imagination or the thought or the budget to do a big funeral that's different to celebrate the person. But I love the idea that by injecting a tiny bit of colour, you can still make it special in that way and connect with the person and bring those moments of joy because it costs nothing really to be able to do that. So that's a really lovely way of personalising a funeral at the other end of doing something really big that celebrates the person. So and the other thing I was going to ask you about, you mentioned praying and faith, which is something that's quite key in your life, because you're married to a Baptist minister, is the faith side of things. I've spoken to people who have done this, you have got faith and you haven't got faith? How does that interact? Because I'm guessing, like you said, some people might say, faith would be useful at this point. So if you've got a faith, and you're leading a service, I guess, like you said, that can be something you can lean on can really help you in those moments. But it also might make it a lot sadder or harder at times when you see people who haven't got something to lean on like that. And you know, the same vice versa, if you haven't got a faith, and you're leading people who do have a faith, I don't know, it must be difficult for you personally to kind of manage all these things, whether you do or don't have a faith as a celebrant, so how does that kind of connect to what you do for you? Does it help hinder?

Jen: 22:09

I think that's a really good question. Because so i Yes, I am a Christian, and I am married to a minister. But as a funeral celebrant, I come with no undertone of kind of trying to ram any sort of faith in any sort of service, each service is a blank page to completely reflect the person who's died. So my heart is for those families that in their time of grief, don't want support of church or a minister. So I get the honour of going into homes that I know my husband wouldn't go into, because of having that label. So I wouldn't describe myself as a humanist celebrant, I describe myself as a civil celebrant, that leads the service specifically for the person who's died. So whether that's a baby, it's all about the baby. So if the parents are using non heavenly language, so for example, they have now become a star, then the whole service would reflect their language and talk about stars. So it's about tuning into each kind of tone, language, the words they're using. So it doesn't really affect my faith. But I know, I hope I come with an undertone of empathy, love and support. I do think about my families deeply and a lot. I send them sort of Christmas cards and things like that. But I don't come with that undertone, that if families want to include, like the Lord's prayer or a hymn, or some do allude to like the heavenly things, or faith based things or religious content, I'm comfortable to include that I've led services alongside ministers and bakers as well, where families have felt conflicted, where they didn't want the minister or a vicar to lead it. But they wanted me to facilitate it. So I've done kind of both. I've stood in for vicars when they've had COVID. And I've sort of led their services. So I breached it a little bit, but I don't ever come with that undertone. And I would hate for anyone to think like, Oh, don't vote Jen, because she has a faith. And I hope people see that I don't have a stencil, but a name goes in each one is bespoke. Yeah, I can

Claire: 24:31

see that would be something that you'd need to clarify, because when you speak to the funeral, celebrants who don't have a faith, they say the same, I'm very willing to incorporate faith based elements and like you said the same thing, the language of Heaven and different things. But it is tricky, but I suppose a lot of the funeral based stuff or traditional funeral stuff when I do the verging at the local church, even those without any faith or connection to the church at all, will still choose hymns. And we'll still have a lot of because it's there in the tradition of funerals. So I guess it is something that will always crop its head up. It's Some point because it's, you know, where do you go? If you want to sing something, I guess it could be quite tricky to find something that's not linked to some sort of religious context. Are there things you couldn't play songs, but to sing along? I guess it would need to be a hymn maybe.

Jen: 25:12

Yeah. And I think you can incorporate music in all sorts of ways. And I think sounds and music are, particularly there's a certain generation that have grown up with kind of hymns and choruses. So it would feel unloving not to include something that perhaps was important to them, they may not have, like a professed faith, but there may be certain songs that just kind of reflect their upbringing. So I think it's really important just to tune into each family, I just sort of see it as a place of being alongside the brokenhearted supporting them through for that short period of time. But then in my focus for what what

Claire: 25:54

are the bits that personally you do find hard about the job are there are there particular things that whether it's just admin, or whether it's actually something emotional?

Jen: 26:03

I think some things that people presume, are really difficult. For example, baby services, child services, young people who've died by suicide, those sort of really difficult ways that they have died, particularly unexplained deaths, that's really difficult. But for me, it's almost the opposite. I kind of enjoy if that's the right word, then the most, that dwelling with a really broken family, and supporting them through the unfathomable. Some of the services I've led for babies and children have been my favourite. So the things that some people may think are the challenging and most difficult bits I enjoy almost the most. But I guess the challenge for me is the balance of self care. Being a mom and a wife, you can get all encompassed of sort of death dying all the time. So like your social media, or just your interests, or the books that you read. Our little bookshelf in the toilet has got all sorts of different things. And it's like, oh, it's all just like Greek orientated interests me and I realised that not everyone, when they want a coffee with me in a cafe, don't want to hear about it. So it's, it's really important to get that balance in life, the things outside that give you interest in life and variety, really. So that for me is the challenge not to get too consumed by it. My identity is not as a funeral celebrant, I'm Jen. And I've got all sorts of things that I love and enjoy. Yeah, so that balance is the challenge. I

Claire: 27:43

know what you mean about social media. When I started the podcast, I started following all these accounts about grief. And within about three weeks, I was like, I can't do this. It's just it's too heavy. I need I actually need to see the videos of raccoons running around and stuff to kind of let the light relief because I can't do it all the time. But when you're drawn to those big subjects is something like something that interests you, you do have to be a bit careful of self care and not not getting too far down that road. And some people because

Jen: 28:10

they know my job. It's their opportunity to ask questions. So they finally think ah, someone approachable. I can ask this question, like, what really happens there? What can I actually do? So you have to tune in socially when people are intrigued, because they're thinking about perhaps their own service and, or someone around them is unwell. And it's making them reassess things. So it's good to chat. But it's also good to chat about other topics like my love of the crown or different certain subjects in life kind of cake. Yep. Chocolate, those sort of thing. Yeah. Trying to run

Claire: 28:52

a we're all trying to run so difficult. I blame the weather. When you look back at your career During this so far. Are there any particular highlights that stand out as like so far? That's the moment that really kind of comes to mind first? Yeah,

Jen: 29:05

I think for me, they are the services that as people walk out at the end, they've people have approached me asking questions like, Ah, how long did you know that person for? I'm usually the one in the room that has never met the person who's died, but to reflect it as if I do know that person because I've used the language that the family have shared with me, that is a true highlight. So for me, it's like, Yes, I managed to kind of really grasp the personality and character of that person. So they're always highlights. There have been some services that I will never forget. Because it just felt like you hit the nail on the head of the right tone, the right thing the family wanted. There's a few families that keep in contact. There was one that I remember meeting with them and they said to me straight away, we want the scene to Boy, we need this service, high tempo, really joyful. And as I sort of worked with them on this service, but on the day, I was so nervous because I thought, I know in that moment, particularly the committal moment that the joy might not be present, kind of, it's okay if the tears fall, and I didn't want this service to be fake. So to weave in sort of humour and joy, and actually weave it down into sort of grief, all that. And during the committal, they wanted a particular song and everyone up on their feet dancing. Wow. So to try and steer environment in the funeral service to get everyone up on their feet, dancing this song, and they were dancing and clapping. And it worked in the family. On the way out, I remember the young son sort of just grabbing me, and just said that was just what we all wanted. And it was that sigh of light. Oh, I'm so glad because I have been trying to be sensitive, but kind of follow through exactly what they wanted. So the service where we were dancing down the aisle was pretty amazing. There have been some themed services that have been wonderful like a Christmas one that was no any Christmas, because a person who died was the local Santa. So was wearing head to toe Santa outfit within the coffin. And these two black wellies were in front of the coffee. And so everyone came in Christmas jumpers. And so when a scene is really strong, they're just unforgettable. Yeah, moments of just magic I had a grandchild who had Down syndrome, helped me with a service and as trying to work with the family, and how could we include this grandchild? appropriately. So I asked if the grandchild will press the button for the curtain. So I gave him this moment. And as he came up to the microphone with me, before he pressed the button, he just shouted and raised his hand when five, three, wow, press the button or went by Grant all this stuff. And it was just, it was wonderful, because the whole room knew in and it was just perfect. But I couldn't have scripted that but I knew his voice and his involvement was really important to the family. So sometimes the best bits are not over thought. Other times, you've really thought through the details. And they've worked well. So yeah, I love so the one that I described before about pink in everywhere and wearing pink, the lady has chosen for her ashes to go into space. So it was kind of space themed hours in a star dress. And sometimes they're so unique. You can really run with a theme. And when you see people walk out, and they go that was just so then that for me absolute highlight. Yeah,

Claire: 33:05

that must feel. Yeah, knowing you've given that one me what a gift to give somebody. And that is not easy to do. Like you said, people might picture a joyful funeral. But like you said, you know, you've got the experience of actually being in the room and knowing what that atmosphere is like and to shift it to that is very difficult if it's not there already. So yeah, that's amazing. I think what a lot of people would fear about your job would be just the public speaking in itself. Have you got moments when you look back and you've you've made a mistake that you kind of that haunts you slightly, and I know you have counselling so that I know you'll have worked through this. And I won't be triggering anything too. Too horrific. Hopefully. I

Jen: 33:38

think every service I walk away with I could have tweaked this perhaps next time I would do it like that. I think it's just the perfectionist isn't it of wanting to make sure it was right. So there can be niggly things. I remember leading a service once known as a gorgeous black and white photo projected on the wall behind me. And I don't I don't book the media side of things. The funeral director does that. And I lead this service. And it wasn't until the end that they came to me and said that wasn't our loved one projected on the wall. So I have never had a clue. So there's things like that, that I'm like, Oh no, but the family laughed it off and thought it was hilarious. And so we kind of got away with it. All right. But so there's moments like that where I do beat myself up. Like if the tech system doesn't want to play ball and tweaks like that or you plan something but it's always thinking on your feet and being flexible. So even though I've planned a certain amount of time, you have to think on your feet in that moment to flex things move things around. That is always quite challenging. Yeah, there's there's always things to learn as well just when you think you've met a family and you go ah, this was similar to last time it won't be is completely unique. So starting at a completely blank page with every family helps when asking good questions, and clarifying questions just to make sure that you haven't presumed something. And actually, that wasn't important to the family. So it's always the double checking, triple checking, and that sort of thing. It's

Claire: 35:17

amazing how resilient families are. I mean, not all I know, some people would be really upset if something went wrong at a funeral. But the amount of stories I've heard where things have gone wrong, and people have, it's been one of the highlighting memories. And like you said, they've said, oh, so and so whoever they'd lost would love that. They've loved that this went wrong. I was at a funeral recently. And I felt so sorry for them, because as they left the church, it absolutely tipped it down. And they were just going into the cemetery to bury this grandma. And it had been dry for the whole service, a timing was just so so bad. I felt so sorry for them, they all got drenched. But they came back in afterwards, just like running into the porch of the church. And I could hear them all saying, oh, she'd love that. That was her, she did that on purpose, that immediately turned it into something that will be part of that the memory of that service. And so I love that people do that people get so worried about things going wrong. Same with weddings, really, but ultimately, they tend to be some of the best memories sometimes. So it's nice that people can turn those things around. Like they're not always

Jen: 36:14

Yeah, you hope that any sort of things are given a bit of grace, particularly the unexpected. And you do try and work very closely with a funeral director in the venue and lots of quick decision making and teamwork. But yeah, I do hope some families when things have happened, that they they embrace it, and not take it too deeply. Because I think my deepest heart is never to, I want to help people in their grief and their process. So if they experience a good funeral, that reflects their person, it will help them in grief. And particularly for children and young people who've never experienced a funeral before. If I can journey alongside them, and give them a good first experience of a funeral, it will set them up for the future. So there's always that you want it to be perfect. So you can beat yourself up a bit. And I do have to kind of give myself for talking to sometimes afterwards and go Why am I kind of worried about this little detail? Perhaps the family didn't notice that. I did this when I was hoping to do this. You've just got to trust the process yet and talk to families afterwards. Have

Claire: 37:27

you got any thoughts about what you would want for your funeral?

Jen: 37:29

Oh, I changed my mind a lot. The more kind of families I meet, I think some people presume I'd be perhaps really out there and do something outrageous. But some of the services I've led have been really kind of intimate with only a few. But it was the word source certain symbolisms that were done that are precious, I think it would definitely have to include a Lion King song of my family know that I did a lot of travelling around Africa. And so that's a big part of my heart and Lion King. My kids know that. So it's, I think it's those little things everyone should walk away with a white chocolate limbal horse. And I think kind of Yeah, Black could probably be banned. And most people associate mustard and purple with me. So they'll probably wear those colours. But I changed my mind quite a bit sometimes that I go from one way where I go, I'll be cremated. And I'd love to be scattered from a hot air balloon across the African savannah and my kids joke sort of logo mom will do that. And then there are other times like the the woodland in north Wales that you went to. And I just think that place is just magical as an actual burial ground and then I go model love to like dwell there. So I changed my mind a little bit. But I think it depends on kind of perhaps when I die the circumstances but I've definitely put a few ideas in my children's heads. And they're pretty used to all things death over the breakfast table. So they don't think they're mums to wacko, particularly when I turn up at the school playground wearing an outrageous colour.

Claire: 39:16

I'm literally picturing like the Western Lion King cast at the front now with all their gear or even in the forest. You could do it in the forest in north Wales and total forest through the curry throwers. They're all singing that will be amazing. The total forest when we went I hadn't seen anything like that before and you're right is absolutely beautiful. You just I was like well, you know, can anyone be buried there? It's nowhere near where I live but wow, what a place to just rest everything about it was just beautiful. I loved it. I fell in love with it. But it doesn't seem like there's many of them around. They seem quite rare at the moment which is a shame because it was lovely use of

Jen: 39:50

land and it was an established woodlands which is different. You're kind of being buried amongst the trees rather than buried and then the tree is planted and then it will look on Amazing in like 1020 years time Yeah, so no the bird song in that place. I've led services there in all weathers. There's something so magical. I lead a lot with AD. So that's a very special place and a very special person to me. Really?

Claire: 40:15

Yeah. Isn't your lovely team over there? The people in that area are well catered for when it comes to funerals. Lovely people. I mean, that's the only people I've met. So I haven't got any comparison for anywhere else. But yeah, they were all very, very welcoming, very friendly. And yeah, just very caring really, which was, which was lovely, too. So, for my last question, I'm building this tool shed of metaphorical tools to help people you know, through loss and grief and to understand it more and to prepare for it really. So the question I want to ask you is related to the colour because it's such a part of your brand. So what kind of tool do you think colour is when it comes to funerals or even processing grief?

Jen: 40:53

I've been thinking about this and sharing it with my family, my children came up with all sorts of tools in a shed that were quite appropriate. One said shaves or kind of leaf blower and all sorts of things. But I was thinking that my own office is the garden shed that we've moved to in the Manse. And we were decorating it kind of boarded it out for me, and we painted it white, just wasn't me. So I bought a tin of mustard paint. And the floor is mustard. The walls are mustard, the ceiling is mustard. So it is my little box of sunshine. But it struck me when I went to the DIY store locally, this machine that I needed to ask for my coloured paint to be created. I couldn't get it directly off the shelf. And also this incredible machine where they sort of put white and it squirts a bit of this colour and a bit green and a bit of this and you look at it and you think those colours on in mustard, kind of such a unique makeup of this colour, and then it sort of shapes and mixes and gives you this personalised pot of paint. So I think that would be my tool for you, not just the tub of unique paint that is individual and unique to the person but it's the process that it goes to to become unique. It starts as this white in a paint, but it needs a little square of different colours to form that colour. So if you've got room in your metaphorical shed for an actual paint mixing machine, that would be amazing.

Claire: 42:40

A paint mixer, and of course I can fit in because metaphorical sheds are very accommodating, and basically just grow as you need them to. For this analogy, it's almost a shame that paint colours don't start with black instead of white, that common funeral death colour. And then Jen could add her colours to it to change the standard funeral colour to make it something colourful and unique to the person that's died. But that's not how paint works. Anyway, if you want to find out more about Jen, you can visit www.JWcelebrancy.co.uk. And I'll put a link to that and her social media in the show notes. And it's well worth checking out not just for the Herman video that she did, but also for the beautiful colours you'll see stamped all over her branding. Thank you so much for this conversation, Jen. As always, chats like these really allow me to dream bigger when it comes to thinking about how I'd like my own funeral to be but also reminds me how creative we can be when remembering family and friends through their funerals too. My grandma loved the colour yellow and owls. So I asked one of my friends to make all the immediate family a yellow textile owl brooch to wear at her funeral. It's given me something I really cherish about that day and made it very special. But having started the podcast since then, I wish I'd push to go even bigger with the yellow theme. I think she'd have really loved that. So thanks for listening to The Silent why podcast. If you've got a subject you'd like me to chat to an expert on, please get in touch via social media or the website or just email me: thesilentwhy@gmail.com and let's chat...