New Year, New... Herman!

#096. It's not just Christmas that can be a tough, heading into a New Year can be tricky too. And this year, even though we were very intentional about navigating a childless Christmas (and it went well), we hit New Year and for some reason the wheels fell off the apple cart!

We're Claire and Chris Sandys, hosts of The Silent Why podcast, lovers of deep conversation, building community and marzipan (that's mostly Claire).

We're also childless (not by choice) which adds a layer of discomfort to some of the popular family times of the year, and so we understand those that aren't fully engaging with the excitement of another year ahead.

In this episode we discuss together (for the first time since New Year) why we thought our New Year's Eve might have been a bit of a disappointment - and you get to listen in with us 😉. We also talk about how Christmas went, and introduce you to something very exciting that was launched by The Silent Why yesterday (8 Jan 2024)!

Yes, Hermans are now a real, physical thing, and they are available to pre-order (at a special price for this week only) from the website: www.thehermancompany.com. More on this in the episode but also on our social media (links below).

Pre-order your Herman now: www.thehermancompany.com

Pre-order 'Praying Through Infertility' (as mentioned in episode): https://sheridanvoysey.com/prayingthroughinfertility/

Transcript

Chris: 0:02

Hello, Hello,

Claire : 0:03

And welcome to the first episode of The Silent Why in 2024

Chris: 0:07

Woo hoo. Yes, we're back. And we've got something to share with you things to share that we're really, really, really pleased about. And also something else to share that's a little bit depressing.

Claire : 0:16

Well, if that hasn't sucked you in what will?! If you're new to us than an extra big welcome. We're a podcast that chats about loss and grief and all kinds of it, not just bereavement. And we've got a special focus on hope. Is it possible to find hope in every kind of grief? Well, we're trying to find out and we're limiting it to just 101 different types.

Chris: 0:36

Aside from that, in this conversation, we're going and scripted again. Not that we scripted conversations anyway. But this is an unscripted, we haven't processed any of this beforehand. So who knows what's gonna happen, we're going to talk about our Christmas or New Year, what they were like for us this year. And also talking about a few other little aspects, one of which is really, really big for us big in the sands household, and also a book that is being published around the world this month, that we're also very excited about as well, yes,

Claire : 1:06

in fact, the most exciting thing was launched yesterday on social media. So some of you might have already seen that if you haven't, pop on over and take a look at that

Chris: 1:14

Already gone viral, in our house, between our two devices,

Claire : 1:18

in our house everybody's seen it! But we're going to kick off the conversation by just talking a little bit about what our Christmas and New Year was like, because we did an episode before Christmas, which is our yearly checking to see how we were feeling and what kind of place we were in. And we thought we were actually in quite a good place this year with Christmas compared to previous years. But it's safe to say our new year wasn't as great. And we haven't actually processed that or even talked about it because we haven't had time, really. So we thought why not do that now in the safety of our own home. We can record it and then just let all of you guys listen to it. So welcome.

Chris: 1:51

Let me correct you on something we have had time. We just haven't made time.

Claire : 1:57

Well, you've been at work most of the day and asleep the rest of the day. So I would say we haven't had time or not a beaver.

Chris: 2:04

Yeah, true. So let's let's talk about it. Now. I've actually, as often is the way I've actually talked about this with others, but probably not with yourself as you process and think around feelings and thoughts and verbalise things, maybe with first time with colleagues maybe with friends. So I've I've started talking about New Year with others, but yeah, we've not really talked about it.

Claire : 2:26

No, in fact, I am one of my, one of our podcast listeners turned friend, Laurie, I was chatting to her today on Marco Polo. And she said to me, how was your new year because she knew I hadn't been amazing. And I said, Well, you know what, I haven't actually processed it with Chris yet. But we're going to do it tonight on a podcast episode so you can listen in for yourself what could go wrong? See what the conclusion is?

Chris: 2:45

So how good was new I'm gonna set you up here with a question that we don't like being asked How good was New Year's Eve for you?

Claire : 2:51

What kind of scale?

Chris: 2:52

Are you supposed to say? Why are you assuming it was good?

Claire : 2:54

Oh, okay. I really did not know that that was not

Chris: 2:58

collecting. Let's let's let's press stop and record another

Claire : 3:02

note we're gonna power through. Okay, right. Well, we could start with Christmas. Yeah.

Chris: 3:07

Okay. lends itself to New Year quite nicely, doesn't it? Christmas. So we recorded the episode. Christmas was really lovely this year. I really enjoyed Christmas. Good. You got me into you know, going full Christmas from the start of December, which is a little bit earlier, maybe then I would tend to go I don't know maybe trying to be countercultural in I don't want to go with the shops telling me that everything has to be festive. Shops. You'd start in September. True. But we did. So decorations went up. Christmas lights went up. We started looking festive, feeling festive from the start of December and the first or second of December, ate my first mince pie. And week after that maybe, which is something normally a couple of weeks before I'd leave it. So we started the build up and were quite intentional. We were quite focused on what we were going to do. There was a nice lot of buildup, there was no stress because we planned Christmas shopping Christmas presents. There was no stress was there in it. It was just pleasant. I think the building was pleasant. There was lots that we were talking about lots that we were looking forward to at home with family with Church activity. So yeah, for me Christmas went went really well. Yeah,

Claire : 4:19

I would say that is two or three years worth of practising and being very intentional about what we were doing. None of that was just we had a great Christmas. Yeah, it was something that we had focused on what do we really enjoy, like I did in one of my blog posts, like pick the things that you enjoy, and I have done I've picked the lights, I've picked the festivities, the nice food and just really played into that and enjoyed the things we can enjoy. We can enjoy nice evenings with nice food, you know, watching good Christmas TV, that's just something we're really like, you know what we're gonna embrace that we can do it. Let's do it. And we we enjoyed that. So yeah, I think it was it was really good. We saw both sets of parents this year, which is quite rare for us because normally we're either away doing something different, or it could be the two of us where we might see one set of family and because they're sort of separate ends of the country a little bit. It might be one or the other. But this year, we saw your parents on Christmas Day, and we saw my parents who came to visit afterwards. So that was that was nice to see the full spectrum of rents rents.

Chris: 5:16

Is that something the kids?

Claire : 5:17

I think it might be? I also think I can't get away with it.

Chris: 5:20

Because I didn't work. It was the pause before you even said it.

Claire : 5:23

I know. I knew I wasn't gonna land it. Okay. So yeah, that was good. So we saw some family, but it wasn't like we had big family, you know, with lots of other people and kids and stuff. So we didn't have to navigate those sort of dynamics. So it was all adult which was nice. Probably

Chris: 5:38

helps to know that we we are planners, we're very organised. We love admin, both of us. So we like to plan stuff. So a lot of our Christmas stuff was planned in advance. So we knew what was going to be happening on this day on that day, when you times of coming in and going out. We plan some activities. We spoke in the Christmas episode, certainly for me, and then you've agreed with it on on realising how much I wrongly rely on external things to affect my mood to affect my feelings. You know, rather than finding comfort from within or peace, you know, I tend to look externally, we'll come back to this because that's probably there's, there's bits of this in the New Year stuff. But at Christmas, I think I was quite conscious of just actually working on that. And that was quite helpful. So my mood wasn't dictated by football results, or what presents did I get that I really loved or didn't like, you know, my mood wasn't affected by that it was actually just really enjoying some of the moments with you was just the two of us some of the really nice conversations were had with with parents as I rent. It was, you know, just enjoying those moments and finding that from within, rather than my mood being dictated by other stuff. It went horribly wrong for New Year, but we'll come back to that. So yeah, yeah, it was lovely. Thank you, because a lot of that work on that has come from you. I think you'd sort of gently coaxing me and leading me to think about stuff, which is really helpful. So I'm very thankful that you guide me in that way.

Claire : 7:03

And thank you for earning money so that we can pay for it.

Chris: 7:06

Yes, well, for now, we'll come back to this, it's all going to check

Claire : 7:11

the pressure. Now, overall, I think Christmas was was good

Chris: 7:15

success. 23 Christmas judging spots.

Claire : 7:19

It's not something like, Oh, I found a recipe. So every year, I want to do exactly that, because that would not work. So it's recognising this was good for this year. But I'm not going to repeat it identically next year, because I'm under no illusion that that will necessarily work. Another year. It does depend where you are, what you've been through what sort of triggers you might have had along the way leading up to the season or that kind of stuff.

Chris: 7:42

I agree with that. But I do think there are ingredients that we put into place this year, which had been quite healthy and quite good, that we'll use again next year in a different recipe mindsets, conversations we had, it was a measured build up as a measured approach with everything from shopping to the stuff that we're doing ourselves from playing games, just playing board games, the two of us, we did that quite a lot on our end of the build up to Christmas, you know, little things like that. So they were the sort of ingredients. I think that if we adopt similar mentalities, whatever the actual plans are, then that'll be a good thing.

Claire : 8:12

Yeah, I think on the whole, we navigated it. Well. We were very intentional about it. Possibly focused so much on Christmas and getting that right, that that's where we may have fallen down. But I think we were we had family to my parents stayed until Thursday after Christmas. Yeah. So we had sort of things happening and people around until that point, and then Friday was where we started to just lose something. I'm not sure what it was.

Chris: 8:38

Yeah, I agree with that. So Christmas, New Year, always a week apart. I had the week off work. So we were both between the two. So we were both around together, sometimes I think and in chatting to colleagues as well. In the last few days, they've recognised actually coming back to work for a few days between the two can be quite nice because it just sort of separates the two rather than just merging them Christmas into New Year. Doing a couple of days of work then just helps you reset so you can build back up again. For whatever your plans are for New Year's Eve. It doesn't need to be big plans not talking about big sort of extrovert social gatherings. But have your choosing to have another bank holiday weekend here in the UK more time off work. join in with everyone around you celebrating and sending messages of goodwill and happiness and blah, blah, blah. Yeah, it just helps having that we didn't have that. So I had the time off. So when your parents had left us on the Thursday, we then had the rest of Thursday, and then Friday, Saturday, Sunday before I went back to work on the Monday on New Year's Day. Yeah,

Claire : 9:40

I think a lot of people have a week off between Christmas and New Year depending on which industry you work in. Because for some people, they're in businesses that just shut for that time anyway, for others, they have to take annual leave and for others, you know, it's really busy and you can't and I've always thought it would be nice to have all that time off because we've never really done it. So leading up to to this in both our working life We've been in offices and things that open in between Christmas and New Year. So if you want it off, you have to book it for annual leave. And for us, it was never really a priority. We always used to put that annual leave more towards the summer and you know, times when the weather's nicer. So this year, when you had the whole week off, that was quite rare, because normally, you'd have gone back for at least a day or two, sometimes three days in between. So I thought, Oh, this is great, because I haven't done this before. But I think you're right, looking back, it did merge the two into one another. And there wasn't that sort of go back into a bit of normality, and then come out again for another cool weekend. And the few people I've seen around here since New Year, have sort of said, I'm looking forward to getting back in to the normal routine. It's been a long time and the kids are still off school, right up until the Friday after New Year for us locally here. And that's a long week for a lot of people to have to keep looking after kids as well and the weather's rubbish. So I think a lot of people are looking forward to getting back to routine. So maybe having a bit of that routine in between does make it less of a long kind of haul. You

Chris: 11:00

mentioned the weather. That's been a big factor for a lot of people in the UK, I think that the weather has just been unusually mild temperature and very grey, dark, very heavy clouds, lots of rain got lots of localised flooding, it's just just lots and lots of rain, really weddings, really high winds as well like 4050 mile an hour winds. So it's been lights on indoors, parents talking about kids not going out at all and just sitting and playing on the computer. You know, it's not just us, but the weather has not helped at all just making us feel a bit of cheer. Okay. summarise then summarise your New Year. Feelings, your feelings around you. Yeah. Yeah,

Claire : 11:39

I mean, for me, I think it's different things. It depends which bit you mean, I think you've got the actual New Year's Eve, which for some people is a big party celebration marker, you've got like the New Year's Day, which is technically a bank holiday, but this year you were working. So it was a normal, normal Monday for us really. And then you've got the whole kind of, you know, the concept of being in a whole new year. And I think they're all quite different for me this year, I'd say New Year's Eve, we desperately wanted to try and make it feel a bit more special. We'll just feel a bit special like we normally do. We've made homemade pizzas before we've played games, or watch a special film or you know, we used to have friends over in the old days. And all that kind of stuff. We wanted to do something similar with the two of us make it special, watch a certain film, do something with it, make some food. But as neither of us could really get any of the impetus towards doing that. We were just very flat very sort of depressed really, but neither knew why. And the whole thing just came and we watched the fireworks at midnight because I was determined not to be such a curmudgeon that we just go to bed at you know, half 11 I could just see that happening. I'd be lying in bed watching the new year.

Chris: 12:47

People that go to bed before they're not committed.

Claire : 12:50

I think for me and you being the two of us who normally go to bed about 11 Half 11 Anyway, it would be particularly weird and negative for us to go to bed at half 11 and not see the new year. Yeah,

Chris: 13:02

we're quite late birds do enjoy you. You love the firework displays on TV.

Claire : 13:07

I do likes it. And I've always enjoyed. You know, I think if you go back and listen to the podcasts on how we felt about Christmas previously, I've actually said I prefer New Year, because there's something about it takes away all of the family pressure and the dynamics of Christmas that can be so kind of upsetting for especially for childless people. New Year to me felt like something we could celebrate. And we're up late we can do that people can't do that with kids so easily. It feels like this is our celebration. So I normally really like New Year. And I like being intentional about it. You know asking each other questions. What do you want for this year? How was last year? What was your best experience? I love all that exploring things. And I had that in the back of my head for this year. But when we got to it, it was just like I don't know what's going on. I don't want to very flat with the whole thing. I don't know why cuz there's some good things ahead in this year. So I'm quite hopeful for 2024

Chris: 13:58

But are you okay? Are you okay? with not knowing why? Because my brain, my brain, my character, I want to know why. So I can put it right next time. But you're okay with not knowing why?

Claire : 14:09

Well, we're only like 72 hours out of New Year's Eve or whatever it is. When we're recording this, obviously. So yeah, like I don't know why. I'll keep reflecting on it might take me weeks months, but it's not something I'll just give up on I will look back on it and think what was it about that? I mean, some people have said that, you know, you put so much effort into Christmas and doing that intentionally. Maybe it's just you get to the next bit and you just you're all done. You know you've done all you can for that bit and you've got no you haven't got much left for New Year, but I wish I'd have known that. Because then I would have just been like I have trouble abandoning what I wanted to do. Like having that intentional time to talk on stuff. I have trouble letting go of that and just been like fine because I don't want it to be the case. What I probably should have done is said to us look, nothing's gonna happen. Let's just pick out well watch the fireworks don't need to be intentional about this one. When

Chris: 15:00

you say putting effort into Christmas, there's so much more to that isn't there than just the obvious? Like, I assume when I hear people say I'm putting effort into Christmas that it's all about the activity that that work. It's the build up the, the shopping. Yeah, emotional mental effort and preparation and organising things, getting things right getting the balance right of the two of us. And we love being married. We've got an absolutely brilliant marriage. We know when we're connected. We know when we're disconnected. And we know when we're disconnected, we need to get reconnected again. I think this is a bit of an exaggeration, but it felt a little bit like the plug was pulled and our connection suddenly was severed. When it was just the two of us again, after your parents had left. We had we had we fell out overboard. You know, I got a bit snippy. Was that smoke nod with your eyes closed? Yeah. Yeah,

Claire : 15:56

I think that's a fair assumption.

Chris: 15:59

You know, we we recovered quite quickly from that fallout. It wasn't pleasant. I didn't, I wasn't in the mood at all to play a game. But you thought no, let's push through. Let's play a game. And then

Claire : 16:09

I'd like to point out, you told me you were in the mood after I set it up and read through all the rules as if we're going too late to

Chris: 16:15

go into the details. It's not it's not relevant now. But it was just one example of a number where we had just disconnected in our marriage. And a lot of the time and the build up to Christmas was was working against that. So we'd stay connected, we'll be together we'd be in agreement will be a team. And that's really important to you. So I make an effort to try and meet you in that and say, Yeah, we do these things as a team from everything from decorating the Christmas tree to making mince pies, games, board games, you know, we do as a team, and we enjoy that we operate really well out of that. But I think just when it was the two of us, everything was over Christmas was everything was in the past. And suddenly it just felt really toughen. And actually, I was quite teary at times, I don't know whether you noticed or not. But at times, we'd be watching stuff or praying together New Year's Eve, when we were singing, I really choked up at times. That is quite again, that's quite unusual for me. And that wasn't your that was just a place of flatness of just really feeling like hope was hope was severely down on what it was over Christmas time. Again, you you say I don't know why I think I know why I think if I could do it again, I'd have other plans and things for us to do some activities.

Claire : 17:31

It's interesting, you say not just connected for me, because I didn't feel that between us at all. I just felt like overall, we were struggling with it for some reason. But I felt like we were quite together in that. So I didn't actually didn't feel disconnected from you so much. I mean, apart from when you got really angry about the ball game. But on the whole, I felt like that was like, that wasn't it so much. And I had things intentionally planned in my head. So there was many stuff I could have done and put in place. I just couldn't have done any of it. To be honest, you know, I had those things. We had games we could have played I had stuff we could have talked through or questionnaires we could have done or stuff we could have watched and none of it felt right. So yeah, even if you'd have planned stuff, I'd honestly believe it would have gone out the window because we just weren't in the place to do anything. So you can't force it, you just have to let that be.

Chris: 18:17

And then in that place for me what tends to come out then is the unhealthy side of whatever it is in me that I noticed a number of times that there's go to things where I find comfort, a little bit like some might, you know, extremes like alcohol or whatever you try you know coping mechanisms. So when I feel that flatness, I want to put it right and I'm trying to find that external stuff to put it right and so the two I think two main things one was food. So I do eat more stuff, eat more lovely food, which was quite easy to do because we had you know a fridge full of stuff after Christmas which was lovely. So you could pick up bits of cheese, cheese straw, anything involving cheese basically or chocolate so much cheese. It's That'd be nice. And then the other thing which was actually chatting today to my mum and dad briefly about on the phone just recognising myself like a real strong deep desire to spend money to buy stuff to treat myself to stuff to buy things that will make me feel better. And it's like you know, check myself and be like, What are you doing that's ridiculous. You don't need to do this. But I get you know if I'm if I'm buying something for myself, I don't spend you know I'm very sensible in a way because I won't just buy something I'll do a lot of research. So if I let's say I buy a pair of shoes. You know rather than just buying a pair of shoes I will start looking around I'll visit several different websites I'll consider online and look at different options and identify the sort of shoe I want to linger do more research, right till I find a particular type of shoe that I want then I'll start looking at work and find that shoe. Different sellers online in shop Up, where's the best price? Once I found the best price? Can I get the price even better, I'll find discount codes or research stuff in all of this takes time. And when I'm not actually on the phone on a device, researching it, I'd be thinking about it, I'd be thinking about, Oh, I only want to get back to that. There's something there's a little chemical, something in my brain that is released, just like a feel good hormone when I know I'm doing some research to buy something, and ultimately, you buy it feel good, it's gonna be delivered in the post in three or four days. Great, really happy about that. And then, you know, a couple hours later, it's like, what next? Because that feeling obviously doesn't last. It's clearly not a healthy thing. But I recognise that in myself, and I kept rebuking myself really, because I was like, What are you doing, you idiot? You don't need this stuff. And then I'd be back to well, I feel bad. I need I need to feel good. So I'm going to do it. Is this making sense?

Claire : 20:50

Yeah, no, just because it's bigger hits of endorphins, like we get with phones. You know, they say that we've scrolled through phones, because we're looking for those tiny hits of I think endorphins is the right word, but there's little moments of happiness. And you get 90, I scroll down my Instagram feed, and there's a raccoon in the snow. And I'm happy for 10 seconds while I watch it. And then I scroll on a bit more. And there's a donkey rolling around in sand,

Chris: 21:11

send me the raccoon in the snow. And then for the next three days, all I get on my social media is videos of raccoons doing other stuff because the algorithm has been telling me that's what I want. I know that's what Claire wants me to want. It's not what I want.

Claire : 21:23

You're not the only person getting raccoons on their Instagram feed because of me and I am proud of it. Right you hold I've got a new fascination with raccoons not having them in this country at all. I can't work out if we're looking at pest or pet and fascinates me.

Chris: 21:37

Why don't you go past? So yeah, so in summary, I really recognised in the flatness of New Year, how much sort of worldly material stuff bubbled up, as I tried to find feel good little hits of feel good stuff externally, rather than being able to find the internal reasons why I don't even mean I'm not looking for internal reasons, the internal equivalent, but it's actually maybe just recognising it's okay to feel flat, it's okay to feel blue. It's okay for it to last more than one day, just just sit in it. And then just sit down. And my head doesn't allow me to do that. It just tries to find fixes and cures. And whether that's external or not. So look internal look for internal cures, and then and then get angry with yourself if you can't find it. So it's just a spiral. Really?

Claire : 22:25

Yeah. And it's an interesting thing, because I do believe that at the heart of what we're feeling in some way, it's connected to our our childlessness, and the loss of things we would have liked to have had and grief in some way. And yet, it's not an overt, obvious grief. It's not like anything triggered us specifically, it's not like we were thinking about it. It's not like this. She was the first year we were really coming to terms with it. But yeah, I feel there is something there. I

Chris: 22:52

was definitely, definitely there. I don't know what I would say. And we've spoken about this before on the podcast, that all of this, there's no distraction from any of this, you know, all these feelings a parent might have or in their own way. But they can be distracted from it for three or four hours until bedtime, because they've got kids to feed kids to play with and stay and all that sort of stuff. Whereas for us, there's no distraction. It's just the two of us in our house. So unless we put the TV on or watch a film, it's just there. So there wasn't a distraction. That's that's a major way I think that not having you know, as an adult is mid 40s, not not having any sort of distraction. You know, we used to have a dog, that would be a distraction, we used to take the dog out for walks three, four times a day that would be that would force us out the house that will be destroyed. But at the moment, the last number of years, it's just been the two of us.

Claire : 23:41

Yeah. And like we were talking about, not long ago, she when you say things like, you know, we've got a great marriage, people could hear that very flippantly as a some sort of brag that all we have to have something good because even got children and we've got a good marriage. But actually, that is a lot of work and effort. And when it is intense. And it's just the two of you. It's it's almost more work and effort to keep it good. Because again, there is a distraction. I know some people find that when their kids leave home, the marriage has trouble because they've been so many distractions leading up to that point. And then when it's just the two of them. It's so intense. It's like, Oh, my word, what do we have in common, we have to almost learn how to reconnect again. And we won't have that specifically, we have got that ongoing constant, nothing in the way of our relationship to have to keep working on and we've spent a lot of time and effort on learning how to do that and marriage courses and learning about each other. And, you know, it takes so much time and effort to have a marriage that's good and a good friendship and have it as intense as it is when there's just two of you. So it's something we've worked really hard on but I think this is really it's a really good example of how there's still times when we don't know what to do with it and just because we have a child free New Year's Eve with no we could do anything we wanted to just because that blank canvas there, a lot of people would think that was something really special and amazing. And they wish they had that. But actually, it's not the same as coming out of a busy week or a busy life to have that for a bit and then go back to it when that is your whole life. It's it's very different. It you know, I think maybe, maybe part of it was that New Year's Eve for us was the same as Saturday night and Friday night, and the previous Friday night and a previous Saturday night, every other Saturday, Friday, Thursday, Wednesday night, the whole rest of the year. So to try and make that special and tell yourself this is a new year, we're going into a new year, this is a big deal. I want it to be a big deal. Because I do feel like for me, it is a big deal. To try and make that happen when the night looks no different from any other night of the of the year is difficult without injecting into it. Money, loads of people parties going out. And that's not really who we are at the moment. I don't know if I've ever been that person. I like the idea of being that person. But in the reality is I'm not. And when you don't have that sort of thing to throw around. Yeah, what do you do,

Chris: 26:05

I mean, I'm definitely the extrovert and the people and the noise and that, but I think without going to the extrovert place, I really like creating events. So I like if I, if I drink have a nice beer, because that's like a hobby of mine. I like a really nice event beer. So if I have one beer on an evening, I want it to be a beer that's memorable that's had some sort of story behind it. That something I can then talk about with others, you know, it's an event. So even if it's just having a drink, I like to make an event. But there wasn't anything about I think New Year's Eve that created an evening, you know, an event something of memory of that evening, other than it was New Year's Eve. And that that I find that's what I struggle with.

Claire : 26:49

Yeah, and yeah, there's nothing wrong with not doing anything for New Year's Eve. Yeah, I'm so conscious of Chris, because of the podcast, I'm so conscious of New Year and Christmas, and people who are sat on their own. And it's you know, it's heartbreaking to me that anyone sits alone and doesn't want that to be the case, some people will sit alone, and they're very happy for that to be the case. But there will be some that are sat alone and really struggling with it. And so I think I have that pressure on me as well to try and make the most and enjoy what I have. Because I know that other people don't have someone else to spend it with, even if it's just one other person. So many people would like that. So you've also got that pressure in the background trying to force you to enjoy it and do something. And you can't you can't force it. If it's not there really well, you can try. But I think that's how you end up falling out in a bigger scale.

Chris: 27:37

If only there was a little sort of soft, crocheted companion that you could have with you in those moments. You know, when words are difficult to come by if I knew there was something that I could gift you look

Claire : 27:53

no further. I'm lucky I have exactly what you need. Brilliant.

Chris: 27:59

Well,

Claire : 28:00

I forgot to bring. I was gonna do the beanie bottom noise.

Chris: 28:04

Yeah, let's talk about this, which is full of wonderful things that we're happy about. We're excited about that is really encouraging. Wait, wait. Sounds like a beanie bottle. That's

Claire : 28:17

what the bottom of a Herman sounds like?

Chris: 28:19

A Herman. Herman. So you've launched it? I have Yeah, project for him and company.

Claire : 28:24

I have finally I've been working on this for I haven't worked out exactly. But it's many months. Now. Yes, I wanted to create something that I could sell through the podcast, partly cuz I've always liked the idea of selling a product. My background was all marketing stuff. I like the idea of having something marketing it myself branding it selling it. I love that idea. So that was sort of there. I could do with earning some more money through the podcast, if this is going to be a long term thing I'd like to do to also do writing. So it kind of fed into that as well. But my main thing was we ask all our guests, what is your Herman and it's lovely having those words that we can pass on to other people in their grief. This is what I've learned from my grief. I want to pass it on to other people. And that's their Herman, I love that I did. But I saw started thinking, Well, what if we could physically give something instead of just words? What if we could actually give people actual Hermans that could be with them in their grief in their sadness in their loss, their frustration, their anxiety, that hospital treatments, whatever it is, they're going through, they're struggling with? What if we could give them something that would stay with them, especially when we can't be there for them? And when you know, a lot of grief is a very private affair. You want to do it on your own or, you know, the real grieving is often done at times when there's nobody else around, not even out of choice. It's just how it happens. So what if we gift people something that we knew would be with them in those moments? So that's when I came up with the idea of making something through crochet because it was a new skill I'd picked up and we went through a lot of different shapes and sizes, but we came up with the final Herman which was launched on social media yesterday. And last week ice sent an email out telling my buy me a coffee monthly supporters first because bless them, they're the ones that have paid for this to happen. The leftover money after the podcast fees is what I've put together as a seed fund to launch Herman. So I sent them an email and a message and a video just thanking them for that. And then I told people on the newsletter a little while after that, and then yesterday, he went out on social media, and he's now available for pre order on the website.

Chris: 30:24

So he's out there to see on social media, describe for us now what Herman looks like.

Claire : 30:30

Okay, so he's, someone described him as tear shaped, which I think is a nice kind of shape. He's a blob, sort of a blobby, blobby shape,

Chris: 30:39

tissues, but more of his tissue.

Claire : 30:42

He's made of 100% cotton yarn, and he's stuffed with toy filling, and he's got a beanie bottom. He fits in the palm of your hand. And I worked hard on making him so that he wasn't, I mean, I'm calling him him. Because it's Herman. I feel like to me, it's a him. But he's sort of not got a gender to look at him. You wouldn't. It's not obviously. He's not got any obvious, you know, gender associated with him. But he's also got worked hard on the face. I wanted him to look like he was comforting, but not this big smile, which is not really what you want in grief, but equally, not something that's really depressing. So I think I've got the face, right. And I wanted it to be not too happy. Not too sad. But when you look at him, there's this sort of this hope in his safety eyes, I think.

Chris: 31:28

Why are you giving away all the technical details here? Yes, a little character companion crochet is very soft. He's very self fits in the palm perfectly. Yeah. And he's a lovely shade of blue.

Claire : 31:39

He is Yes, I did some testing. With different people asking what which of these colours do you like calming colours, greens, and blues and pastels. And this was the one that came up top. But it's perfect, really, because ever since then, I've just thought, well, people thought he was T shaped, which works well with the blue. But also, you know, we all feel blue every now and then. And it's like he understands that. So works.

Chris: 32:00

Flowers. Quite often the traditional go to if somebody is celebrating, if somebody's grieving, if somebody's in a bad place, you know, get them a bunch of flowers and flowers are colourful, you know, flowers are lovely, and they brighten the room, and are often associated with that. This is something that will last you know, Herman will last a lot longer than a bunch of flowers. And Herman will, will join you in your, whatever the season is that you're in, he will sit with you in your season, he's

Claire : 32:27

here to sit with you in whatever you're going through, so that you're not alone. And that is the main key message of Herman, that you're not alone. So I can't be with you right now. But I can give you home and who can be with you. Or if you're feeling a bit lonely yourself, and you want some company, you can buy a Herman for yourself, and he can be there with you. And it comes with a nice little card. So whereas when you send flowers, you have to write the words that you want to send to that person. And that can be really difficult at times. So what I wanted to do is take some of that away from people. So there's a card in there, which you can see on the website, which basically says, you know, sometimes it's hard to find the right words. But that's why Herman is here. And also on the back, it gives you the history of Herman. So for people who have no idea what a Herman is, if you're gifting it to somebody, it says that it started from the 1800s with the Amish works right down to the sign of my podcast, and why we use it as a question. And that's how they came about. It's also a link to take you to the website, a QR code, which gives the person that you're giving it to loads more information on what Herman is and how to look after him. So there's a lot there. I've tried to make it a full package for people who want to gift something. So

Chris: 33:32

to see him and read him and meet him online. Where should we go? Yep,

Claire : 33:37

so you can go to www.thehermancompany.com

Chris: 33:39

Easy,

Claire : 33:40

Or www.thesilentwhy.com/herman, which was the other link we used to give out for him and information, they both go to the same place.

Chris: 33:46

Okay, that's nice and easy. And so for you, personally, and is there now launched for the whole wild, wild, wild, wild world to see, how does that feel?

Claire : 33:57

Yeah, it's a little nerve wracking, because I haven't ever done this before. So things like selling things on our website has been a very scary tech learning curve. But on the whole, it's very exciting. I love the idea of these little creatures that we've had around our house. I've been making them for a while, actually going out and sitting with people. And I've already gifted two or three of them to people I know, sort of as test cases when they've gone through something. And some of them have sent me photos of their Herman in different places in their house on their dressing table. And just been really grateful. And the idea of that happening, and then going far and wide and finding their own little places and people feeling comforted by these is lovely, because you know, I have make each of them with a lot of care. And when I'm making them I often think I wonder where you're going to end up I wonder who you're going to help. So it'll be lovely to start getting them out in the post and sending them here, there and everywhere. So yeah, I'm hopeful that people will be excited by them and you know, we'll want to try them because I recognise it's a brave thing to send. They're not the cheapest things but they are loved. With the price of a bunch of flowers online, and like you said they last a lot longer. So I'm hopeful that that will be something that people will understand handmade things are always a lot more expensive because of the cost involved and the time, and the transaction fees, and all these things that are hidden away. So it doesn't make a lot of profit. But what I am doing is giving a percentage of every sale of every Herrmann to a charity, and there's going to be more on that coming. Later, I'll do a special thing on what charity I'm doing and why. So it's really

Chris: 35:28

lovely. I mean, it's huge, really, it's we shouldn't downplay it, it's something you've been developing now an idea through to creation through to launch for, what, six, eight months, yeah, probably at least trying out different things, designing different things working on all the branding, the packaging, on top of the writing that you're doing the podcast stuff. So this is this is mega, and ultimately your heart you touched on it, but your heart is not just to sell something for money, it's to actually produce something that is going to be a companion that's going to be something that will add value will add meaning into situations that are difficult to speak into difficult to feed into this will be a gift that can be given. Or being well that will be received with you know, such a depth of gratitude, and just understanding empathy, sympathy, water, whatever you sort of want that this will be really special. So well done. Thank

Claire : 36:22

you, I'm really keen to, to try and be more confident about it. Because I like I said to you earlier this week, as like, you know, my brain sees all the stuff that needs doing and all the things that could go wrong, and you're trying to not in a negative way, I'm trying to mitigate against that to make sure it goes well. And people get what they're after, and what they want. And when you see all that and your brain works that way, it's very hard to just celebrate it and just make it into a big thing. And I follow people who celebrate much smaller things in a very big way. You know, it's like, oh, this amazing things coming. It's amazing. And if you spend this much money on it, this will happen. I'll give you a free this and that, and this is going to change your life, this course is going to change your world and will change how you think. And I'm just not that kind of person. So I find it very difficult. Even typing in big news feels like a big deal to me on social media. Because my brain says, What if it isn't big news for many people. So I'm trying to get over that. Yeah,

Chris: 37:13

you would not be good in sales,

Claire : 37:15

I would be rubbish sales. I've always known that. But I am. I'm very hopeful for it. And I've got so many ideas, and other people have given me so many ideas off the back of this that I've had to really just boil it down to No, get him in his simple form out there and get people knowing about him and just finding out what he is. And then I can develop other things off the back of it. But there's a lot more I could do from this. So it is very exciting. And there's a lot of things that I hope will follow this year off the back of him.

Chris: 37:46

I love as well just to end this I love the name of the company, the him and company sort of the thinking around that because that works in a sentence, doesn't it? There's a lovely way of speaking about the Herman company.

Claire : 37:57

Yeah, because I'm hoping everyone will benefit from the company of a Herman. Yeah. So it works both way. It's the Herman company, but it's also about the company of Herman, because he's a great companion. So yeah, it's got lots of nice meanings to it, which is nice. Yeah. But it's not the only exciting thing we've got happening this year. Because the other thing, as you mentioned at the start, is that there's a book coming out, Sheridan, Boise's new book, and Sheridan was a guest on the podcast. At the beginning of last year, I can't believe it's been a year he was the one of the new year last year because he was talking about loss of dreams. And he's a man that has written a lot about his journey with childlessness. And he's working on a lot of new things. But one of the things he's brought out this year, which comes out this month, is a book called praying through infertility. And it's a 90 day devotional with up to 37 different contributors that have each written a devotional for every day for working through infertility. So it's a great present, for people that you know, that might be going through it, it's great as a resource for yourself, if you're going through it. It's something I wish we had when we went through it, because he's very carefully chosen the contributors from all different places for infertility. So some people like us are now childless, but other people have gone through other routes, you know, having children in different ways. So it's got a whole big realm of different possibilities. But all of the all of the contributors have been through infertility and know what that feels like. And they're coming at it from a different angle with their own personal contributions. And Sheridan asked us if we would contribute, which we said yes, and you've got two out of the 90 I've got three. There's another one of our podcast guests, Laurie Alcon she's also written devotionals for it. So there's a few names in there that you might recognise, but it's a great book and if you preorder it now you get five different bonuses that come with it which are only going to be there for the pre order so well worth ordering. And the book comes out on January the 30th for most of the world, but it's February the 15th in the UK, so yeah, if you preorder now, you get these bonuses with it, which is Got a couple of discussion guide, you get some sample chapters to read, you get some affirmation cards, you get nine ways to support a friend going through infertility and to help those around you. And you get a sample of Sheridan's book resurrection year, which is an amazing book for people just about starting again and the journey that him and his wife went on with childlessness and having this resurrection year that helped them kind of contemplate their future, really. So that's very exciting because it's my first published work.

Chris: 40:27

Finally, additionally, published writers are trying we're now a published writer.

Claire : 40:31

I am Yes, not author. That's the name on the cover. But one day, I'm aiming for that, but yeah, it's a good step. And annoyingly, you are also one notice that everyone had that guy,

Chris: 40:40

also a published writer. Never had that goal at the same time as you. We are both no published writer.

Claire : 40:47

I start a podcast, you become a podcaster. I write something you write something yet, we're together. On your coattails, basically. Yeah, not with crocheting yet. Nope. But you have said that, should I get overloaded with Herman crocheting? You would be willing to learn? I

Chris: 41:03

would be? Yeah, I can't say whether they'll be success at the end of that, but I'd be willing to try. Yeah, we'll see how it goes. Back to the book. Yeah, praying through infertility. You know, there's not many books like it. So it's quite simple to search for it online, you'll find it praying through infertility book. Yeah,

Claire : 41:20

I've got the website, link on my link in all my bios on social media. And I'll put it in the podcast show notes as well. And also the same with him. And I'll put the link in there. But yeah, he's available for preorder now. And he goes on sale directly from next Monday. That just gives me a week to just get to grips with the website and stuff and see how many pre orders come in. But yeah, the hammer company.com. You can find all the details about him there.

Chris: 41:45

We absolutely adore the feedback that certainly that you get the messages, the comments, the encouragement that you get from supporters, which just means so much. You've collected a number of comments, I want you to make them available on the website. Yes, I've

Claire : 41:58

added testimonials. I've contacted everyone that's given us some lovely words and say, Can I put these on the website, please? And they've all pretty much come back, bless them and said yes, of course. So yeah, on the homepage. Now I've got some lovely words. So I wanted to share them with you. So it wasn't just us that were enjoying them. So you can check those out.

Chris: 42:13

Always keen to add to that. So if you've got thoughts on the praying through infidelity book, or of course the Herman, which is the big thing basic for Claire personally, then we'd love to hear your comments, your feedback. So yeah, keep it coming. We're really grateful. I think we've just about wrapped up Christmas and New Year.

Claire : 42:28

For this year.

Chris: 42:29

This year, or next year. So thanks for joining us on this journey. We're really, really pleased that you're here couldn't do it without you. If you want to find out more about Claire and myself and our story, our experience with infertility and childlessness, then look at the website, thesilentwhy.com listen to episode three of the podcast, which is called loss of fertility that was us talking to each other just like this through our, in fact we did two episodes, didn't we, about our story. Of course, if you want to preorder or buy or even see Herman, then visit www.theHermanCompany.com.

Claire : 43:00

And as always, you can support my work through www.buymeacoffee.com/thesilentwhy I'm very grateful for any donations, they can be one off fancy teas that you buy me for three pounds, or you can support me from three pounds a month up to some other amount, or now you could buy a Herman because that also supports me just as much. So all of that is very gratefully received.

Chris: 43:20

It is, in fact, every time you know, even one fancy tea that someone buys you, I hear about it, there's glee in the house. Glee over tea!

Claire : 43:29

always Glee over tea, and I'll enjoy it with some marzipan. And I'll be sharing more about Herman's over the next week, including which charity I'm supporting with every sale, but also where you can get one. But to find out firsthand just join my newsletter list where I can give you information straightaway and all our updates. And that's www.thesilentwhy.com/newsletter

Chris: 43:47

We're gonna finish this episode with a quote Actually, it's more than a quote normally we finish with a quote, but this is a poem written by Donna Ashworth, I think it's a poem, is it a poem?

Claire : 43:54

or an excerpt. I'm not sure.

Chris: 43:56

An excerpt from Donna Ashworth's book, Wild Hope, she posted it on Instagram recently. And Claire saw it and really took to it because it's so similar to a Herman and so you're used to in the newsletter that you sent out last week and the launch of the home and, and we want to share it here too. So you know, as Claire's reading, and you could almost replace the word hope with Herman.

Claire : 44:16

Don't Lose Hope."Put hope in a safe place. Not a super safe place. The place we cleverly stash things in never to be seen again. Just a safe everyday place. Like beside your car keys. Put hope besides your car keys, and each time you leave the house, you'll see hope glistening there and you won't forget to take it with you. And if you're careful with hope, you'll never lose it again. You've never experienced that num hapless cloud that descends upon your life with its soul sucking vacuous apathy. Without your car keys, you're going nowhere. It's the same with hope. Hope is the engine, the steering wheel, the power in your life. Keep it safe, don't lose hope. Keep it with your keys. You need it more than you may know."