Let's Chat... Funeral Directing (with Adrianne Hickey)

#087.  Let's Chat... setting up your own funeral business, personalising funerals, and everything funeral directing.

In these Let’s Chat episodes, I (Claire Sandys) chat one-to-one with a guest who has experience/expertise in a particular area of loss.

In this episode I’m chatting to Adrianne Hickey, a Funeral Director in North Wales. I met Adi on our trip to North Wales to get some work experience at a funeral directors. She took the brave step of starting her own Funeral Business with no prior experience.

I was very curious to hear about what a role like this is like, and we covered all sorts of areas around funerals, like the traditions we feel we have to adhere to, why sometimes it's appropriate to get creative with funerals but not always, and what it's like setting up a funeral business from scratch as a female.

When I listened back to this chat I realised it also encourages us not be afraid to give things a go, follow our dreams, and have the courage to go and get what you want.

More about Adi: http://www.tirionfunerals.co.uk
Social media:
https://www.facebook.com/tirionfunerals
https://twitter.com/adi_tirion
https://www.instagram.com/tirionfunerals

RELATED EPISODES:
Loss 43/101: Loss of life for a Funeral Director:
https://www.thesilentwhy.com/podcast/episode/7abc6ce6/loss-43101-loss-of-life-for-a-funeral-director-jonathen-harty-and-chris-lord-brown

Previous conversations with Funeral Celebrants: https://www.thesilentwhy.com/letschat

Blog: Seeing my first dead body: https://www.thesilentwhy.com/post/seeingmyfirstdeadbody

The Eternal Forest:
https://www.thesilentwhy.com/podcast/episode/78cf470e/come-for-a-walk-around-a-natural-woodland-burial-site-the-eternal-forest-in-north-wales

Time in Wales on w

Transcript

Claire : 0:00

Hello there. And thank you for joining me for another episode of Let's Chat. I'm Claire Sandys host and blog writer for a little podcast, you might have heard of - The Silent Why, and setting up a podcast was one thing, but what about deciding to set up your own funeral business like today's guest, fancy that? Have any idea how to go about it? No, neither did she. But here we are. And I think you're really going to enjoy this chat. I actually had trouble naming this episode because it could have been named anything from Let's Chat planning a funeral, to putting the 'fun' in funeral or personalising funerals or starting a funeral business. But we didn't just stick to any of these topics on their own. We covered so much ground that in the end, I decided funeral directing seemed to best sum it up. Now, there are a number of different types of episodes on the podcast, we have 101 last episodes where we're working our way through 101 different types of loss and grief, chatting to those who have been through it to see if it's possible to find hope in every kind of loss. There are also blog episodes where I read the latest blog that I've written for the website as a podcast episode for you. And then there are TV episodes where I dissect how a specific programme or film has handled loss or grief. Then there are other bonus episodes. And there are these let's chat episodes. These let's chat episodes were originally started because I found that in doing the 101 loss episodes, I was coming across all kinds of interesting people who worked around loss or had experience of a particular area of grief. And I wanted to record conversations with them too. But technically, they weren't part of the 101 losses that we were looking for. So I started let's chat conversations to allow me to do this. In these episodes, I specifically chat to a guest who has an expertise in a particular area that can help us deal with or maybe prepare for loss. And this is actually my 20th Let's chat episode. For a full list of all the subjects I've explored in these conversations, you can find them on www.thesilentwhy.com/letschat. And because I want to capture some useful nuggets of wisdom from each of these chats, a bit like the Herman's on our 101 episodes, I decided to build a tool shed metaphorically Of course, I'm not that skilled in woodwork of equipment to help us face and get through loss. So at the end of each episode, I ask our guest what sort of tool their subject is, and then I add it to my shed. So far, I've acquired all kinds of fantastic shared items, and I'm going to do an episode in the new year to share all 20 with you. So in this episode, I'm chatting to Adrianne Hickey, or Adi as she's more commonly known, and she's a funeral director in north Wales. I first met Adi on our trip to Wales to get some work experience at a funeral directors. She often works with Lord-Brown and Harty who we interviewed for the podcast previously, I'll put a link in the show notes. And it was these two lovely chaps who introduced us to her. He also used to manage the Eternal Forest, the natural burial ground that we visited and did another episode on again, I'll put a link in the show notes for that one. Adi took the brave step of starting her own funeral business with no prior experience. And in this conversation, she chats about what it was like, what motivated her to take such a change of job, and what she now does at her own company, Tirion Funerals, who like their website says, are a small independent business providing simple and modern funeral services bespoke funeral services made to meet your needs. I was very curious to hear about what a roll like this does and what she's seen and experienced. And I was not disappointed. We chat about the traditions that we assume we have to adhere to with funerals, how and why they can be as adventurous or as simple as you like, or need them to be. What it's like starting a business like this from scratch, plus examples of funerals that she has been involved with. So grab a cup of tea or coffee or maybe a whiskey (if it's an appropriate time of day), and relax with me and Adi as we chat all things funeral directing.

Adi: 3:36

I'm Adrianne Hickey, Adi. I am a Funeral Director. I live in North Wales near the mountains. And yeah, I have my own funeral directing business. But I also help another company as well. So a lot of my week is doing funeral work.

Claire : 3:51

So tell us how you got into that because it's not your average little girls dream to move into the funeral business. Is that in your family, or is that just completely just you?

Adi: 3:59

No, it's not in my family at all. Although interestingly, after I decided to start my business, my mom said to me,'Oh, God, I wanted to be a funeral director when I was little' And I'm like 'really mum?' But, ya know, we had my Auntie's funeral. And my sister, she died about 12 years ago. And she was a really interesting woman are really, really locally famous still mean, everybody knew her and she travelled a lot and she's had a really interesting life. And her funeral was a bit rubbish funeral was a bit boring. And the vicar doing the service used her her marital name that she'd sort of dropped when she'd separated from her husband, and he used that name. And I just thought to have funny that this all happens after you dies, how does it work? And then I happened to be doing the ironing, listening to the radio, and a man came on the radio. He was talking about how he started his own funeral business, because he went to his mom's funeral and thought it was rubbish and he decided he would start his own. And it was sort of like a light came on in my head where I was like, gosh, that's it's so fun. My sister and I said, Listen to this. She was like, oh my god, I'm not doing that. No way. Which wasn't the answer I was expecting at all. And I mean, looking back on it, it all seems a bit like I'm making it up. But I did, I started to read about it. I bought a load of books, I started to research on the internet, I started to sort of network with funeral directors. And then, tragically, the auntie who had died, her son died tragically in London about six months later after she died. And his sister was a bit like, 'oh, crikey, another funeral'. And again, I feel like I'm making the story up. But again, I was like, 'well, I think I could do it'. She was like, 'really?!','think I know enough', which was crazily arrogant of me looking back on it. But she said, 'Oh, okay, if you think you can', and I did. My brother and my husband went down to London and picked him up and brought him back up here and the funeral directors that I'd sort of networked with, one down in Devon, and he was, yeah, he was amazing. He just, you know, phoned me constantly and said, 'Listen, don't worry about this. Don't worry about that. Do this, do that. Don't let them tell you this. Don't let them tell you that...', you know, and, and we did it. And it was lovely. I loved it. It's after that. I was like, God, I could do this. Again, very arrogant of me. But as it happened, things just fell in my lap after that. Once I sort of decided I might do that. Stupid, crazy stuff just landed in my feet, you know, where you just think I'm supposed to do this. This is what I'm supposed to be doing. So yeah, I did.

Claire : 6:52

Wow. You're right. It is like something somebody's almost made up. Because it's not like it's just involving paperwork is it? It's not like setting up a business now I'm running, it's involving, you know, bodies and people and big things body prep, and you know, all that sort of stuff.

Adi: 7:05

Exactly. And like I say, looking back on it - I feel like'what was I thinking?!' But it didn't seem very hard at the time. I like I say I had help had support. And then the What's the sort of ratio of male to female because, you know, I funeral director I'd networked with down in the south of England, he said to me 'There's an award show down in in Bournemouth, why don't you come to that?' He says 'you'll meet a load of other funeral directors and you can do some networking' and I was like, 'Oo ok'. So me and my sister in law went down to Bournemouth. And again, crazily enough Cremator of the Year award went to the cremator at the Colwyn Bay crematorium. And a man stood up to take the award and he said, 'Oh, Andy isn't here today. But I will take this back to North Wales for him'. So I said to my sister in law, my God there's somebody here from north Wales. So we went over and met him. And he now is still a really good friend of mine. And he introduced me to John and Chris, uh, you know, but a lot of funeral directors, and they straight away came in and just supported me in every way they could, you know, to what help with this, do what happened that and, you know, without them, I could have never have done it. But she didn't, it was just like, stuff like that, that happened. And, and I had a radio, no TV programme, I went on the TV, and a man saw me on the TV, and he'd started a business, but it had collapsed. So we had loads of equipment. And he said, 'Do you want my equipment? I saw you on the telly', you know, and it was just stuff like that, that the next minute I had a funeral business, you know, it was a bit like 'crikey, how did that helped with some funerals at local church and stuff, and when happen?' But yes, here I am. the funeral directors turn up, I probably only ever seen one female funeral director come and do you the services there are so it's still quite male dominated? Or is it less so? Well, exactly? I don't know. I think it is. I think it must be. Obviously, when I started, there was no other female. Oh, no, that's not true. There was one other funeral director in the sort of 40 mile radius. But since then, there are maybe four or five in my local area now. So I'm assuming that's the same across the country, but I don't know. I mean, it is definitely still male dominated. But yeah, women are coming

Claire : 9:22

Has that made it any harder to get into because I've heard some female farmers talk about how it can be quite difficult to get in. When you've had an industry that's been so settled in its traditions for so long. I'm guessing the funeral business would be a little bit similar like that. Does that mean it can be a bit harder to get into or was it just very welcoming?

Adi: 9:38

Well, like I say, I had the other funeral company that helped me, you know, and they were very welcoming of the fact that I was a woman, everybody else. I kind of had the same standard response really well, how are you going to do it? You need muscle, and I heard that sentence so many times. I said to people, you can't actually employ muscle but you know, I'm quite stop myself. But I can also employ myself if I need it. I still hear that now, because people will still say to me, oh, you're a funeral director, you don't look like a funeral director, like, What were you expecting? One on my own, I suppose. And also, my name is Adrian Hickey. And so often people will either have they've spoken to me through the email or something I haven't actually spoken. And then when I actually found them, they're like, oh, you're a woman, you know. And so I think that kind of throws them a little bit, because I'm not expecting it. But I think definitely, in the 10 years that I've been doing it, it's definitely changed. It's definitely, you know, the even at the crematoriums, there's women that work there now, and there wasn't when I started, you know, stuff like that really is, is changing, I think, yeah.

Claire : 10:47

Do you sort of specialise or do any particular types of funerals? Or are you just sort of a bit of everything?

Adi: 10:52

Well, I do do a bit of everything, I want to do a bit of everything. But I suppose I do get a lot of work in the lateral burial ground, the local ones to me, because I used to manage that. So I just see her because of the history, I get a lot of work down there. But also, I think, because I kind of not sell myself, I'd like to be seen as sort of, I'll do anything you want to require, you know, so wherever you see fitting, I'm happy to do that. And it sort of says that on my website quite a bit. So I ended up, I don't do a lot of Loke, I'm gonna do do some local work. But I do a lot of work miles away as well, because people who've seen my website, and they'll sort of see me as somebody that's a bit more open to those ideas. And I think lots of other funeral directors, local funeral directors are probably open to those ideas, but because they're a bit more traditionally looking. They found the lady with the colourful website, thinking that public would be more willing to do those types of funerals. And and I am I'll do yes, circus tents and fields, or I'll do traditional versus limo 10, car protests did a bit. It depends what people want is really what I tried to be I tried to be what is it that you will be was the person and I know, every funeral director probably says they do that. So we will probably all say that. But I think it's really important to try to reflect that when the time comes for it to reflect the person of who they were and what they did and what they liked, and...

Claire : 12:23

What are some of the examples of things you've done like that to reflect people that have been a bit bit different than people would expect?

Adi: 12:28

Yeah, probably the circus tent one. That was lovely in a way that it wasn't constrained by timings. And it was a lovely community events around that had died, was a Tai Chi teacher and yoga teacher. His funeral, luckily enough was on a really beautiful sunny day. And so we got a big circus tent erected in the local botanical gardens. And the guy the deceased had a friend who was a tailor. And he came in and dress the inside of the tent with all these beautiful fabrics. And people came and did an hour of Tai Chi before we went in to do the service. And, you know, there was lots of, I don't know, like, they had people in charge of the teas and people from the community from the friend group, doing the teas and coffees, there was another couple of friends that were helping direct the traffic. And it was just one of those beautiful community events. And it wasn't like, right, we started at 10. And we're finishing at Harper's, and we're gonna get out of here. You know, we had this thing that must have been a couple of 100 people there. And then afterwards, we went and had a privates burial in the natural burial ground. So it was kind of the two sort of separate sections, if you know what I mean, there was a bit in the circus tent that proper reflected him and a chance for all of his friends and his loved ones to sort of soak up the atmosphere. And I don't mean that like, I mean, like literally like to take in all of the air that was around them, and then to then go on and have a quiet, quiet moment in the commercial and the burial grounds. So that's probably the one that comes to mind that I think is the biggest reflection of them. But there's other ones were the lady who died was, do you know the Eisteddfod? It's a Welsh Festival, huge, huge event in the Welsh calendar, a the Welsh speaking event, and it happens every year. And she used to always take part in this she was a brilliant musician, and her daughters did it. They kind of helped me arranging it. I was a funeral director, but they had so much to do with the actual organising of it all. They had different musicians come in that had been in her life and it was in a church but again, I think the service was an hour and a half long and the choir came in and sang and then somebody played solinst moment and then somebody else, you know, it was, again, one of those occasions that the atmosphere, you know, you could feel her in the air. So it's kind of moments that I love. I love doing every one that I do. But it's those moments that makes me really appreciate what I've done. Happy that I've done what I've done, because it means that I'm doing what I hope to do in the beginning, you know, to, to create an event, you know, because at the end of the day, it's an event, a funeral, a really, really important event.

Claire : 15:32

The way describing it, it reminds me of, of weddings, almost not just thinking while you're talking. We spend so much time and effort on a wedding lasting all day and just absorbing it in and and then for funerals, we almost default to the registry office equivalent of quick slot in and out and then we're done. And how do you sum up a life in such a short span of time like that?

Adi: 15:51

Absolutely.

Claire : 15:52

It seems weird that we've defaulted to it.

Adi: 15:54

Absolutely. And that's interesting, because the thing that I did a couple of weeks ago, for the Welsh TV, the producer who met me before the events, she said to me when I was telling her about the fact that it was an asset there events, and she said, Oh, why don't you organise weddings as well. And I said, Why do you say that? She says, Well, Chris, that's what this is, isn't it, it's like a kind of a big event. And I said, that's the thing. It's funny how people don't see it like that. And it's interesting that you've just drew drawn that comparison as well, that they're not seen to be like that. And, and obviously, with a funeral comes an enormous amount of sadness. And, and I understand that completely. And the one in the circus 10 was so sad, because the diet, you know, the guy was only in his 50s when he died. And you know, it was horribly sad. But just because the event is sad, that person brought a lot of joy to people's lives. And it's really important to celebrate that, you know, and but there's also the other part of it, where I did offer funeral when I say awful in a sense of just how sad it was. And all it was was the mother and the father of the deceased and his partner and her mom. And that was it. And it was so beautiful. Because again, the guy was in his 40s, who died tragically, they could not have a funeral with anybody else there because for them, they were so blown away by what had happened before them just had to do it by themselves. And again, the sadness in the air was palpable. And but again, it's sort of the same as circus events, if you like, but just the different end, it's still designed and done around what the person the bereaved wants, you know, they don't want hundreds of people in the crematorium, they've got to shake hands with and, and so like you say they are they are events, and that was an event, it was an event for them. And it meant that they could sit and just the forward them cry for half an hour. I think that's that's the importance of it all really, is that no matter how big or how small is it has to has to be an event for me. Yeah, and event to totally be what the family or their friends want, rather than a tick box exercise, you know?

Claire : 18:12

Yeah, the more I've done this podcast is really opened up my eyes to what you can do with funerals. And before I started this, I very much had the idea that I'd probably what would I want, I probably want a burial and then I'd have like a like a Thanksgiving thing in church afterwards. And then I've been at a lot of funerals since and I've been like, actually, I want to be here. I want my coffin to be here. I want to be here. I want to be part of everything that's happening. I want it to be more of a focal point. I don't want to be out there when they're doing stuff in here. And I keep changing my mind and then I speak to other people's like, oh, yeah, circus 10 I mean, that's not relevant for me. But I could be a little bit more adventurous for weddings. I said, we do dream about you want the beach? Do you want the meadow? Do you want the hotel, but for funerals, we just think crematorium or church. Very sad. You get up in the morning, you go to the funeral, you have to be sad for half an hour to 45 minutes and you have to be okay to eat some food, then you go home and pretend it didn't happen and life goes on again. Yeah. And I think that pressure is horrible. Yeah, you allow yourself to sit in that sadness, which like you said, there's a beauty to.

Adi: 19:07

Yeah, yeah. And that's it. I think you've described it really, really well there, really well, and, and there about the beach, you know, we live by the sea. You know, we live right by the sea. And I've never had one person say, can we take the coffin down to the beach and have the funeral on the beach? It will be amazing. Which is crazy, isn't it? Why have I never had anyone asked to do that? Because we totally protect the coffin down to the beach and have the funeral on the beach. You know, there's no reason why we can't do that.

Claire : 19:38

And what an amazing thing to see walking past as well.

Adi: 19:40

I think so. I think there's so much beauty in that. And I get as well, if again, if it's something really tragic, and something really awful. It's really hard then to come up with beautiful ideas, but then I also think it's the job of the funeral director to help create that beautiful idea. Ah house have something that says so sad, you know, and so horrible. You know I do and I really do understand that. But yeah, it's just we did I did one for a lady. She actually wanted a funeral pyre, you know, those in the pyre, were they? Oh, yeah. Burn the coffin. Yeah, she wanted one of them. And yeah, obviously, we didn't do that. I mean, there's lots of lots of legalities to it. But I was a little bit like, oh, not really sure what to do this. But as it happened, she ended up having her funeral in this kind of warehouse, she wanted it by the men straight, which is a piece of water. And I found this beautiful building, like a warehouse really. And we dressed it all with fairy lights and put hay bales in there for people to sit on. And, and it was gorgeous, you know, and then, again, they went from there to the crematorium to have a private moments predatorial. And then the family went down with the ashes to the beach. But but you know, there's just like, there's a sense as well, often when somebody dies, is like, let's get this over with now. Quick, quick, quick. And sometimes I feel like I have to sort of say to people, right, okay, let's, let's not rush this, let's just try and think, let's just try to think about it. You know, because some people feel like it's a piece that they have to just, if they can get past it, and they can just just go back to normal. And sometimes I think you have to encourage people because it's really a big part of the grieving process. I think that event that that's your last goodbye, it's so important. So, so important. And again, how do you summarise that in half an hour slot at crematorium, I have no idea how you do. We try our best to do that. And we have the help of beautiful celebrants that, that can do that, you know, that's what they're there for. That's what they're so good at. But, you know, sometimes you just want to let people come up and speak and speak and speak and speak and speak, you know, because there's so much to say.

Claire : 21:54

Yeah, the other thing that just struck me is how, again, you you kind of visualise how you think someone's funeral might look whether your own or someone else's, I sort of forget that that needs to be flexible, because it does depend on how they die and how old they are. And even the same sort of circumstance. You know, I used to watch a lot of motorbike racing and things like the the TT and stuff. And sometimes you'd hear wives or mothers talking. And you know, they say obviously, it's a big risk of death when they're doing these things if they crash. And they say yeah, but you know, we always know that risk is there, and they're doing something they love. And so you sort of think if it happened for them, it's as tragic as any other loss. But there's also this element of they live knowing this is a risk, where someone who dies in a motorbike accident down the road, it's not expected, it's very different. So even those two funerals, were might have more of an element of thanksgiving and loads of bikes turning up to celebrate that person. The other one might be, like you said, for people just needing to mourn on their own. So that's something I hadn't really considered is how flexible it needs to be depending on how someone died and the age and...

Adi: 22:49

Yeah, and there's also just differences of how people see funerals to be because some people see them. So say I say I'm the funeral arranger. Some people see that it's my job now to put on an event, all of his friends and family, and other people see it as no, this is my event for my loved one. And I'm going to, you know, and so right, sometimes you have to really kind of help guide people because they end up getting so stressed about, like lack of wedding. But where will ever be set? Right? Well, we can't have him sitting on the front row because he needs to be, you know, and you're like, oh, crikey, you've got to think about that. You've got to think about where you sit, you know, because there's only if there's any growth, there's only room for on the first few, you know, and you're like, oh, crikey, isn't it just so awful, that they're little tiny details that and they're really important details, because, you know, especially if the spirit of sort of fallout in the, in the family, you know, where people sit in the funeral is, is like a wedding, you know, and it's tiny, tiny details like that, that just make an event. And I suppose that's why it's really important to spend time with the family and spend time to try and figure out all that tiny detail of, you know, how they feel about it. And like you say, sometimes, tragedy happens, but it's still the family want to do a big, ginormous celebration of their life. There's still sadness to that. And then sometimes, sometimes the person's 95 when they died and the family don't want anything, they just do a Direct Cremation because they just don't have it in them to go and do all that formality of you know, so it's so so different to every family you meet, you know,

Claire : 24:31

If you could change one thing about how people see funerals, or if you could make something different. Is there anything that you'd like 'Oh, I'd love to just change that'.

Adi: 24:40

I think the time constraints, I think the that that part's really and I don't mean, just the time constraints. I mean, like, why is the like,'Okay, well, we've got four slots that day, there's one at 9:30, there's one at 11:15', you know, why can you not just like a like a wedding, a bit like a hotel, you know? and you just go to the hotel and you take the coffin into the hotel and everybody sits and has a drink and you know, chills and it's more relaxed. So I don't mean time constraints. And it's not half an hour long. I just mean it's much more of a flexible, flexible events that are a bit more kind of Irish looking, if you know what I mean. Yeah.

Claire : 25:21

You mentioned this before to me, but tell us what you've got planned for your funeral, what you'd like in an ideal world?

Adi: 25:26

Yeah, what my coffin in the house in the morning, I want people to be putting their cups of coffee on top of my coffin, really, whilst they're waiting to take me away. I want them to carry me to the cemetery, you know, I don't want them to put me in a car. And you know, I want I want it all to be done by my family. I want my family to dig my grave. I want my family to fill my grave. I mean, he's probably never going to happen to the counsellor probably just say no. To me, but, but in an ideal world, it's a big, big family events, and they're there all day and they've got food at my grave, they've got drink at my grave is music at my grade. Music is a huge part of my life. And I don't want them to just take me and put me in a hole and then walk away and leave me sitting at the bottom of a hole. You know, I just think, but isn't it funny that we do that? It's often at the local the natural burial ground, their families have dug grave. And families do families or the you know, the guests at the funeral would give them spades and they want to fill the grave in. And sometimes you can see men and women sweating doing it. But you can see how, how much they're enjoying it if you know what I mean. That's not the right what I mean. But what it means to them. Yeah, it's like a privilege. Yeah, and proper closing and events, it they're closing it literally, you know, they are dabbing on the last bits of mud, and it's all done so respectfully and so lovely. But there's something about that, rather than everybody going home, and then the digger coming up and fill in the grave in the machine. You know, it's, for me that sort of stuffs really important that I want to be present. Because like you say, a lot of the thing is you go to this half an hour event, and then you leave the deceased there. And then you all go off and have tea and coffee. And obviously the fact that the coffin isn't there means that people are crying anymore. And that's good, because it can be exhausting, isn't it if you're just crying and crying and crying, but But I sort of feel like I want to be there for the teaser coffee. I want to be there for the whole thing because it's yes, it's about you. Yeah, it is. And the same thing with my family when they die. It will be it'll be that I'll be with them for hours.

Claire : 27:40

I love how brave we can get about funerals the more I think about it, the more I just think 'oh, yeah, you know, if I have to plan Chris's, let's just, let's be crazy'. Like you said, let's have him there for tea and coffee, lets us put some coasters on top of him and make him part of that.

Adi: 27:54

And I don't get I don't see it as disrespectful at all. I see it as they're with me that you know, and I think that's... and I get as well that it's so different for people. Some people really struggle with that. And obviously I don't and that's why I'm a funeral director. So I do understand that. It's interesting, because we did a funeral last week for a man who loved the mountains and talking to the to his wife and trying to organise his coffin. And she was asking, you know, what sorts are there? And she's talking to her. And she said, I said, Well, there's pictorial ones if you want so what do you mean? And I showed her pictures as well tell me what he likes. And she's really loved the mountains. So I put into the search of the website, the coffin website. Snowdonia and then came up this gorgeous coffin of the picture of Snowdonia. And the the lid of the coffin was clouds, the sky and the clouds. So looking down was sky and clouds and then all the way along the side was these, you know, just loads and loads of mountains in the race that only are the mountain range. Because apparently, everybody talked about it at the funeral how beautiful it was. And I think something like that. It really showed me how when it's like a big wooden casket with brass handles and things on people sort of, it's a box, it's a box with something inside, not really sure what but when it's something like that a pictorial sort of something the man loves to do. It's sort of like looking at a pictorial version of a person if you can understand what I mean and I really felt people looking at it and just going oh, in a way of oh look, we can see him just kind of different sort of thing about you know, that sort of thing to about you know, people are scared of coffins and and things like that, but the ones equal tutorial ones of you can send in your favourite picture and they will turn that into the coffin. You know, and I think people if there was that in your living room, I think people would feel a bit better about putting the coffee on top of it was relatively wrapped mahogany. Yeah, there's like this sort of I think it's just that formality isn't it? And I think that formality definitely, you know, it's huge. And it's, it's, it's important to some people, because it's about getting through this process. That's scary. And also, they don't want to familiarise with it, because it's, it's so scary thing that's happening for them.

Claire : 30:31

I had a friend who went to a funeral recently. And the the guy who died, his wife was a painter, and she painted the coffin with just all stuff to do with him all over it. And I just thought, then what a lovely way to personalise something.

Adi: 30:43

Yeah.

Claire : 30:44

Not everyone obviously has skills, but

Adi: 30:46

Yeah, exactly. The funeral in the circus tent. There's like a community room in the town where he died. And they took his cart, his coffin was a white cardboard, I think, a white cardboard coffin, and let's get down there. His daughter was an amazing artist. So she drew this painted this gorgeous tree on the lid of it. But everybody else painted just things all round the side of a, you know, yeah. So it was quite a lovely again, the community part of it that when the coffin turned up on the day, with the gentleman inside it, people wanted to look at it and stare at it and see images that reminded them of him. And, you know, it's, like you say not everybody has that. I wouldn't be able to.

Claire : 31:34

I could do it, not well. It would be remembered, that's for sure. If people are listening to this, and they're thinking, 'Oh, yes, I want to do this', or 'I hadn't thought about that. I want to do this'. How open is the funeral business? You know, because you could go into the local funeral directors and be like, 'I want a circus tent'. Is that something that is a bit unusual? And some funeral directors would be like, I'm not sure that's possible? Or are the funeral directors out there getting a little bit maybe bored of the standard ones anyway, and they love a bit of a challenge?

Adi: 32:05

Well, I suppose there's two elements to that. One element is that if you're a shop, run, funeral directors, you know, time is of the essence. And and I guess if you're doing five funerals a week, 10 funerals a week, you don't have the time to organise a circus tent? And, you know, even if you wanted to, so there's that part of it. But also, I think, I think I know, lots of funeral directors who would be open to that idea, but but I also know other funeral directors that that wouldn't, because it is about let's just get through this. And, you know, let's just make some money out of it. So it does. It does all depend on who they are, I think. And I think the industry definitely has changed, I think it's become a lot more competitive now. And so people are doing whatever they can to, to be good. And and lots of people. Yeah, lots of funeral directors are open to those ideas, whether they'd be open to the idea of a circumstance, I'm not sure. Because it's also, you know, it's also about the connections, isn't it? And I guess it's the family as well, that have the connections. So, so yeah, it depends, I think.

Claire : 33:14

What about like budgets as well, because funerals can be seen as one of these things that, you know, sort of very expensive. And I'm sure it's like most things, you know, it's just it's not, there's just a lot of cost involved and things but I'm guessing there are ways of doing it creatively, but also cheaply? Or does it mean that the more creative you are, the more expensive it gets?

Adi: 33:33

Well, that's, that's sort of again, my thing, really, I think you can be as creative as you want to be, and not spend a lot of money, you know, and I don't think the more money you spend means the more you love the person, you know, and I think it's really important that people don't go down that path. And I think if you've got the money, then absolutely go for your life and spend whatever money you've got. But I understand that in the funeral world, that people want to look like, they loved somebody. And there's this thing that if we turn up in the back of a van with a cardboard coffin, then we look like we don't love those people. There's some people that do have that feeling. And I think especially around kind of North Wales, really, there's this kind of as well, tradition, it's all very kind of Chapel. And, you know, there's this kind of the traditional funeral route. But, you know, I think it's detail like the funeral I did with the pictorial coffin. That pictorial coffin is so pretty, that you're looking at that coffin. I don't think you then need to put £100 flower spray on the top. And I would guide the family on that. I would say, you know, I think you don't really need to do that because that's already there. And then they didn't I just picked some wildflowers from the garden and they made a bunch and put them on the top generic. So I think it's it's important to not spend money if you don't need to. And there's just so many ways around it that you don't necessarily need to spend the money. And I, I try to do that I have tried to help people and guide people in ways of not having to spend money if they don't have to. Yeah, no, because yeah, funerals themselves are expensive, you know, the crematorium, things like that. They are the you've got to shell out, you have no choice about that you have to shell out that money. And so it's the other stuff on top that, you know, I think it's important to be careful otherwise it can it can cost you £1000s and £1000s , you know, yeah.

Claire : 35:38

And I think they are more, just think again, about our wedding. I think we spent£5000 on our wedding. And but it was so meaningful, because, you know, like an auntie of Chris' did the flowers and my mother-in-law made the cake and another Auntie made the bridesmaid dress. And because on the day, so many people have been involved setting up and making the food and stuff, it felt all the better for it than if we just spent £20,000 and got caterers and all that, that in which is a bit more impersonal. So I imagine you can do the same thing with funerals.

Adi: 36:07

Yeah, and that's exactly the same. My wedding costs£3000, you know, because I did that I had exactly the same as you. And it wasn't important to me that it was a big grand affair. It was important to me that my whole family and my uncle did the cake. My auntie did the flowers, you know, it was all stuff. And it was gorgeous. I loved it. And everybody loved it, you know? Because it's a shame, you know, because it ends up becoming this events that if you don't look like you've spent money, then maybe we didn't love them, you know? And I think Oh, please don't don't.

Claire : 36:38

That's such a shame. I hear the term every now and then I'm surprised I have no idea what it means because you hear natural burials. I know about that now, because I went and saw the Eternal Forest. And traditional funerals. I've got a rough grasp on but you hear'green funerals' mentioned sometimes. What is that?

Adi: 36:53

Well, I think that is the natural burial thing.

Claire : 36:55

Right. Same thing?

Adi: 36:56

Yeah. So the green. Green? I think it's yeah, it's green. And it's things like the natural burial where the coffin isn't very as deep as it is in kind of council run cemeteries because of the biodegradable pneus of the soil and that sort of stuff. So it's also about what the coffins made of, whether the car the hearse is electric run, rather than petrol runs. There's a lot of that sort of stuff involved in it, really, because I, me and my colleague, Jon, you know, we talk about this quite a bit. And you know, he'll, he'll say, to me, calls me a green funeral director, and I say to him, 'why do you keep calling me a green funeral director?' And he says, 'Well, you aren't you?' But I'm not really. Because I don't try to be green, I mean I don't sell myself as green! you know. But actually, when I think about what I do, I probably am quite green, really, just because I try not to just spend money on a load of things that you don't need to spend on that you don't then need, you know, just hours and all that sort of stuff. Sometimes it's it's not very green, I think it is just some people trying to be a bit more eco friendly really.

Claire : 38:08

So one last question. I asked all our guests for my metaphorical tool shed that I'm building to try and help people with getting through loss or preparing for loss. So with the work you do with funeral directing, if that was a tool that helps people in some way I can put in my shed, what kind of tool do you think it is?

Adi: 38:24

Well, I think I don't really know what you call them. But there's like a piece of bamboo. You know, the bamboo like..

Claire : 38:31

Oh the canes?

Adi: 38:32

The canes. Yeah. I'd be one of them. Because I feel sometimes like the circus tent funeral, the Eisteddfod funeral, the families came to me and they were really grateful. And they were oh my god, thank you for everything you did. But but really, they did it. I didn't do anything I just was the cane really sort of prop them up and guide them and sort of pin them as they go along. Just pin them and get right you're there. Now you're up next, you know, they they designed it and I think that's really important that the family get the chance to be the thing that's growing and I'll just be the cane in the middle that just sort of helps prop them up to get to the flower at the end.

Claire : 39:14

Bamboo canes! Every shed needs a few of those propped up in the corner. Another very useful addition to my shed that I didn't already have. I can't wait to go into my shed and explore all the tools with you in an episode early next year. Definitely need to record some audio of me rooting around in someone's shed to accompany that. I think I'll be heading to my in-laws for that one. If you want to find out more about Adi you can check out her website www.tirionfunerals.co.uk and I'll put a link in the show notes. And if you want to hear more about the funeral world you can check out lost 43 of 101 loss of life for a funeral director talking to two funeral directors about the personal toll is kind of job can take. I also have two episodes chatting to funeral celebrants, one in Wales and one in Australia. And then there's the episode that Chris and I recorded in Wales where we explored the Eternal Forest, the natural burial ground. And I also blogged about what it was like seeing my first dead body and what our time on work experience was like a funeral directors. And for those of us that like these kinds of topics, there's plenty to choose from, just pop over to the podcast page on the website and search 'funeral' and you can check those out. Thank you so much Adi for this chat and insight into a career that's quite often hidden away, but fascinating to hear about. And thank you for listening to The Silent Why podcast. If you've got a subject you'd like me to chat to an expert on, please get in touch via social media or the website or via email, thesilentwhy@gmail.com And let's chat...