A funeral observed: Chris & Claire Sandys

#050. For this special episode we (your hosts, Chris & Claire) shared some thoughts and reflections while watching the live televised state funeral of Queen Elizabeth II at Westminster Abbey in London (a mere few hours drive from where we live in England). 

For this episode there's no script, no editing of what we say (partly because there's music in the background a lot and that makes it nearly impossible!), no prior discussion, just us pressing record on our phones when we had something to share or capture.

Following 10 days of national mourning in the UK and 4 days of the Queen's coffin lying-in-state (with hundreds of thousands of people queueing for hours to walk past and pay their respects), we have arrived at the funeral. Predicted to be potentially "the biggest live TV event in history", with viewing figures estimated at up to four billion people across the world. This is an event of a lifetime for many people.

Loss and mourning on this scale throws up a lot of questions, debate and interesting insights into how comfortable our country is with grieving. Since we've been discussing it a lot at home, and how it relates to our own personal journeys with loss, we thought it would be good to record our thoughts, comments and reflections while we were watching it live on television.

So, welcome to our lounge, with the funeral in the background, and our thoughts on the loss of our Queen, the pomp and ceremony, the Royal family and female bishop's haircuts.

Elizabeth Alexandra May Windsor
21.04.1926 - 08.09.2022

To see the full order of service from Her Majesty's funeral visit:
https://www.royal.uk/order-service-state-funeral-her-majesty-queen

Transcript

Chris: 0:00

Hi this is The Silent Why podcast. I'm Chris. [Pipers of funeral on TV in background]

Claire: 0:26

I'm Claire.

Chris: 0:26

We're a childless couple, married, and using this podcast to explore 101 different types of loss and coming to the end of a rather unusual time here in the UK, national state time of mourning. And this follows the death of the Queen, Queen Elizabeth II and today very important day - state funeral.

Claire: 0:45

And we're watching it in our lounge and we thought we'd just drop some comments and share some thoughts as we're watching it. About loss, grief, and what the mournings looking like for the UK at the moment. So welcome. Okay, so the first bit we're watching of the funeral is a procession of a coffin, going from Westminster Hall to Westminster Abbey. And there are, what could be hundreds of guards, Navy... I don't know the names of them all! They've got Busby's on, they've got feathers on, all different things... And then there's the royal family walking behind the coffin as well. And it's, it's a very British scene, with the bagpipes playing at the front, and I think it'd be incredibly moving to watch, and you can see people standing, just very still and silent as they're watching it go past, I'm thinking if I was there, I'd be quite emotional this bit because it really feels like the funeral is starting. And there's a sort of solemnity about the whole thing. But it's just really, I think for a lot of us, it joins us with memories of London and for me being there as a child and seeing the Changing of the Guards. And it was always a very special moment looking for royalty as they might pass by and seeing Buckingham Palace, Horseguards Parade. It's just really special and I feel like this brings it together and makes you really realise again, what's been lost. The fact that we've lost a monarch that's been there for so long. And it's just a really special moment, and the music's amazing, so it's a really kind of, very British start anyway,

Chris: 2:31

All of us will have experienced, won't we, a funeral, whatever age we are, and we'll have memories of what that looked like what that sounded like, what it felt like. And so to see this on this scale, just makes you realise what an impact this member the royal family has had for so many years. But for it to be marked in this way, with her funeral is something else. It's just immense to see. When we mention London, this being, you know, this being the capital, this is central London on a Monday morning. Normally, these streets, these roads would be full of noise, full of traffic, coming and going, the sort of the hustle and bustle of a city on a morning. And today it's just silence other than the Piper band and the procession, you just sense that there's stillness, there's quiet. And all of that because of loss, basically.

Claire: 3:24

And you can hear Big Ben in the background, I think you said he's striking out every minute for this bit. So that's something you wouldn't normally hear as well.

Chris & Claire: 3:30

[Hear chime of Big Ben on TV in background]

Claire: 3:38

Okay, so we're just watching the coffin enter Westminster Abbey. And I think the first thought goes out to the people carrying the coffin because those guys look like, that is a no mean feat. And they have to walk so slowly, and it's such a long aisle. So I was just thinking about them. But then we saw the family coming in afterwards, and I think you can see, you know, how it affects people when you have to walk behind a coffin. It's, you know, it's hard anyway, walking into a church with a small aisle, let alone doing this in front of all these guests and heads of state in the world. So I was kind of wondering, I wonder what's going through their heads because it's, I think it really hits home at this point with funerals that, you know, that person's gone, and you're about to say goodbye. Whereas she's been with us in some way. People have been visiting her all week, it felt like she was still here. But at this point, she, physically, kind of will start to vanish from our view. And as we were watching the family come in, we saw that George was there as well, William's son who's nine years old, and I think it hits you then. Not only not only how beautifully behaved he is, he's amazing. It but also how young this duty sets in with him being a future king, already he's being prepped for this. And I think it's a healthy thing for him to be involved at this level to see the respect in the mourning and you know, the procession and what happens, but that's not an easy thing to do at that age.

Chris: 4:54

To think that we've had 10 days now of a national mourning, and when you talk about this slow procession that, for me has been one of the key themes of the whole 10 days really just speed, everything has been slowed down every time you've seen the precession, a march, a queue, it's just been slow, which is quite countercultural in this day and age because we live in 1000 miles per hour. But something like this occasion slows everyone and everything down, which is really interesting to see and to be a part of, when you're talking about whether you're nine or ninety. In the Abbey here, as the coffin makes its way through the sanctuary, those walking behind it, you know, all eyes are on them, both sides of the the congregation, up ahead, behind, you know, all eyes are on on you, which is how it can feel when you're grieving, when you're mourning, that you're being looked at, you're in the you're in the eye of those around you. And so much of that, as you say about duty, whether whether it's little George or the King, or the King's sons behind him, how much they've been trained and prepared for their reaction, their response when all eyes are on them. And it's very hard to show true emotion, isn't it, in that regard? Because you know that you're being watched, and you'll be analysed. Which is how it can feel to us as well, that ripples down to us as well, not just reserved for royalty.

Claire: 6:27

Yeah, I think I've been shocked at how many people have wanted to rush this, people don't understand the whole 10 days of mourning, give it you know, having a week... Some people I've spoken to have really not got that, why do we need to do any of that? What's the point? Which is really saddened me and made me realise how much people are just willing to just move on again, you know, to just not even take a week out to celebrate a monarch that we've had for 70 years, it just fascinates me people would rather just move on quickly. So I think this has been so healthy, it's prompted a lot of discussion, it's prompted debate, it's made people look at what mourning can be like and even this, you know, this five minutes, or however long this is taking going down the aisle, such a healthy thing for people to just stop and think, and watch what's happening and really take in the loss, let it happen. Because when things happen quickly, you can gloss over it, you can bury it. But when you actually have to sit with it like this, it makes people uncomfortable I think, and that's really a good place to be because it makes you start to think about what it is that's going on.

Chris: 7:28

It makes us think in it creates memories. So for the rest of the lives of all those that are part of this, even those watching, you know, as we are watching on a screen from a distance, you know, you'll remember this for the rest of your life. When people refer to Queen Elizabeth II, you'll remember this moment. So even being there. If you if you rush past it, you you don't take much of it in and you're affecting, you know, you're affecting yourself, you're impacting your memories in the shape of your future.

Claire: 7:58

And I think people who have chosen not to watch it, and there'll be a lot who will be doing it just you know, to make a point. I think that's a huge mistake. I think people will regret it because of the moment it is in history, nothing to do with whether you like the monarch or not, this is a massive moment in history for the world. And to be able to say you saw it, even if it's 30-40 years time, I think it's a big thing. And if we'd have had children, I'd have really wanted them sat here with us to be like, you know, I know this feels boring at that age, but this is a big thing. I know that when you're older, you will talk about it with other people - 'we were there, we watched it, our parents made us watch it', and just you just kind of unite with that British culture for the first time maybe.

Chris & Claire: 8:36

[can hear choir on TV in background]

Chris: 8:42

We'd had our first hymn in the service, and for those that have been sort of lovers of classical music of sacred music, you know, that would have been quite moving because that building full of people singing with the organ playing, the hymn was 'The Day Thou Gavest' and you said afterwards you thought two of the, well the Queen's son Edward and his wife Sophie, you thought there was a touch of emotion there at the end of it?

Claire: 9:09

Yeah, I don't know how you wouldn't be emotional with that kind of singing in that sort of environment.

Chris: 9:14

What is it about music then that touches sort of places that aren't touched by other stuff in grief, in lament?

Claire: 9:22

That was nice, big question. I think it's that music sort of depicts emotions, and it taps into emotions, I think for me. In a way that you can't do with anything else. It goes beyond words and art and other things that are maybe more silent in some ways. It just, I don't know, it connects with something in your soul. And that's different for everybod, but how many of us to go to sad music when we're sad, or go to happy music when we're sad to make us feel happy? Or we use it to direct and indulge in emotions I think.

Chris: 9:56

Yeah, to bring those emotions out for sure. And particularly when you're immersed in it when you're in a place or a space where it surrounds you, then yeah, it can be overwhelming.

Claire: 10:10

I think one thing that's so powerful about this whole thing is there's so many dimensions to it. You've got the grief and the loss, and a family at the heart of it that are just mourning the loss of a grandma or mother or great grandma. And then you've got this ceremony that's, you know, huge it's not to everyone's taste, perhaps, then you've got the spiritual element, you've got the God element, which you know, for some people is powerful, because she was so dedicated to her faith, for other people, that means nothing. And then you've got the security level, you know, we're just reminded of that by seeing some of the guards standing around within the Abbey, which I don't remember ever seeing to this extent before. And you just think of the the massive security element that's being covered, someone said that they were covering London from 'the sewers to the skies' this weekend, because the security threat was so high with so many Heads of State being in one place. And you forget about all that going on under the scenes and behind the scenes and you know you've got gunmen on rooftops, you've got... their checking hotel rooms they're doing everything to make this as safe as possible. And so you forget that these mourners, it's family at the heart of it, are not only mourning and trying to be sad, but they also are needing to keep safe. So they're constantly being briefed on security things, they're constantly being told where to be where to sit, they've got people with them all the time. It's not your average funeral.

Chris: 11:29

Just had a short five minute sermon, if you will, from Justin Welby, the Archbishop of Canterbury, who's the most senior figure in the Church of England, and I turned to you and said afterwards, do you think the Queen had any say on what he spoke about, the themes of his message, which was very Christian faith centred and you said...

Claire: 11:59

Oh, yeah, for sure. I think she'd have had massive input into this.

Chris: 12:03

Which is probably the case with many funerals, I guess not every funeral. But if you had the decision to be involved in the planning of your funeral, the content of it, not just the know who did who does what, but what are the themes? What are the themes of the songs, whether that secular or non secular, what are the themes of the readings? The messaging what what message do you want to send out at your funeral? That's, that's, you know, something to think on, that's something I've not thought about, but it's something to think on.

Claire: 12:29

Well, it's something that like in that 'Let's Chat...' I had with Evelyn, she said, you know, you should. You should be picking your songs, you should be choosing what you want there, because that's how it best represents you. So I think it's an important thing. And like she said also;'Funerals are for the living, they're not for the dead'. It's the living that mourn through them, grieve through them, connect with it. And I think Queen Elizabeth would have known that and would have wanted those that were there to get a certain message come across. And so far, there's been quite a strong message that death is not the end, and that there is somebody above the leader, our leader, you know, she believed in God. And that's been quite powerful. And I think, you know, can you imagine preparing a flippin' sermon for this, knowing that like, you might be the biggest audience I've ever had on the television! That's just I don't know, I don't know what you even prepare for that, that must be terrifying.

Chris: 13:18

Well, some newspapers are suggesting that the audience could be upwards of 4 billion people.

Claire: 13:25

Yeah, that's, that's a lot of pressure for the sermon, right there.

Chris: 13:27

Well, everyone reading everyone participating in it, to think that there could be 4 billion people watching this is just incredible.

Claire: 13:35

Fascinating. Also, the other thing it's made me realise is that events like this actually make you connect with your history a lot more. We've looked up a lot of stuff because of this, like, you know who's in line to the throne, or who's this person here, how they related to the Queen? We've re-learnt all her relatives, we've learnt about a lot of ceremony, and how they do things, what did they do last time someone died? I'm learning that I think these sorts of things are really important for learning about your history. And I think that is the time, these big events in history, are when people just brush up on their history, which also feels quite healthy.

Chris: 14:06

There's a quote from Queen Elizabeth II, I can't remember what it is, but it does speak into something that we chatted about in our last episode, shortly after her death had been announced, which is how much we need to reach into the past to help us into the future. So we're pulling things from the past, our history, where we've come from, which will help us into the future, which is so important.

Claire: 14:36

Ok, I just want to say something about these church services, because I think people are watching these church services that we have on TV here. They might think that every British person who says they go to church is doing this every week. And obviously not on this scale, on a smaller scale, but this is not our kind of church service is it? I mean, it's lovely, and it's beautiful for what it is, and there's some lovely messages here. But you know, if we were to have a funeral for one of us This is not the kind of format we would choose. A lot of people don't have this kind of format for their services in Britain, is that fair to say?

Chris: 15:06

Yeah, you know, you can't doubt the heart at the centre of it, but it's high religion, isn't it? It's very religious. Everything in terms of the, you know, the history the pageantry, the outfits, the attire, the words, you know, it's at the Queen's choosing, even the readings from the Bible are from the King James Version, which is very old, very traditional. So, yeah, this is clearly not a picture of the British Church in its entirety.

Claire: 15:36

No, I mean, there are a lot of churches that still stick to the high Church of England format, but we're in Church of England church that does stick to a lot of the liturgy and things but it's not our first choice for a Sunday kind of gathering that we would go to. And we've been to churches that are very different and a lot more free and loud and kind of a bit more chaotic I guess some people would see it being, but yeah, this is not the the'norm'. But... I think that is partly why some people don't go to church because they think it's going to be like this every week and I have to say this isn't you know, something I would be happily attending, and like I said to you, I don't fully get all the female haircuts, the like bishop haircuts, I've yet to see a female Bishop with longer hair. I'm not sure what that's about? Is it anything to do with the hats they have to wear?

Chris: 16:25

No of course it's not.

Claire: 16:26

You don't know that, might be practical.

Chris & Claire: 16:27

There isn't a code of haircut conduct, [we don't know that!] for church leaders.

Claire: 16:33

Who knows?! Yeah, anyway yeah, that's just, just me. Okay, so they're sort of drawing to a close now but we've just had the singing of 'God Save the King', which will be the first time in an official kind of setting like this, I guess, with that many people. And then the Piper doing his lament afterwards, which is really moving actually. I think that God Save the King... they did a close up shot of King Charles' face, and aw, that kind of broke me a little bit. It just, it looked so sad. I think so, I don't know, I felt like you could see everything he was letting go of and everything he knew that was to come and the amount of times I just kept thinking he would have stood in this Abbey and so many places in sung God Save the Queen, and now he can't sing it. He has to stand and everyone else has to sing it around him, he can't be part of that anymore. And just think, oh, that must be really hard.

Chris: 19:28

It's a heavy thing. It reminds me of that Stormzy lyric and song; 'Heavy is the head that wears the crown', that sort of has been referred to quite a bit since Stormzy did that song. But it just looked that, that was almost like a good caption for me of that picture. That heavy is the head that wears the crown. To have your son's around you as well singing that national anthem, which is you know, it is a national anthem, but it's also a prayer. In a sense, it's a sung prayer and during the service there was the second verse, which is really rarely, very rarely sung, or referred to, which even more so has the elements of a prayer of calling on God's blessing to send out this king to do God's bidding really, and to see, you know, the atmosphere in that Westminster Abbey building with the trumpets, the buglers, the organ, the singing, would have just been huge, really overwhelming.

Claire: 20:43

So we've reached the end of the service. So the coffin's been carried out again now. One of the things I've really appreciated I think about this whole process has been the level of respect that there is, I don't know that we have much respect left in our society nowadays. I think a lot of it's eroded away, you know, people talk about respect for the police having gone, respect for the media, respect for our politicians, there's just so much of it's not there. But this whole process... I just love watching the level of respect. When the national anthem was being sung, the guards were saluting, as the coffin moves past the military, a lot of them will bow their heads, there's this just beautiful level of respect for what it is that's happening. And I think that's just been, I don't know, something that just feels very satisfying in me, for some reason.

Chris: 21:32

Before the end of the service, there was that silence, was it a minute or two, it may have been two minutes. And during that on the TV, they used the opportunity to flick around to various places across the country, where small or large crowds had gathered to watch the service on a big screen. And even in that moment, I think what you think about respect, to see so many people there with their eyes closed, just silence or stillness, heads bowed, was really moving to see the impact that this is having on a nation. At the same time, you know, there are many people that are choosing not to participate, you know, almost in protest, they're going about things, intentionally ignoring this, which makes me think as well, yes, about the respect thing, but about how willing are we, how gracious are we now with doing things that we don't want to do, to join in with things, you know, even members in the church, there, Westminster Abbey, being part of that service, there will be many people there that would have been singing or not singing, things that they don't believe in, don't mean that want to, some will have not sung at all, because they don't agree with the words or what they're singing, joining in with prayers, Bible readings, etc. But many would have been joining in with stuff, maybe against their will, just because of respect and honouring the tradition. And that occurs throughout our society doesn't it? With us, with our friends, with our family members, how much, how much willingness is there within us to do things, to be part of things that we're not, we're not really wanting to do or be a part of?

Claire: 23:00

And to just respect things that might not have impacted us, but have impacted others. So, you know, I know that for generations who might be, I don't know, under 20 years old, they won't have any clue of what this monarch has actually done for our country, the time she's been there for. They'll hear the word stability over and over, 'she's been stability','she's been stability', but they haven't been through any of those tumultuous times when that stability was needed. Indeed, we haven't even really, with our generation. So I think it's also trying to appreciate what other people are appreciating and joining with them. It's all about coming alongside grievers, isn't it? We talk about coming alongside them and sitting with them in the pain, and this is about us sitting with people who have known the pain of previous times when she's been there, and now they're grieving and we might not fully understand it, but we've come alongside them to grieve with them. And again, I think we're losing that in society and it's it's such a shame it's such a valuable thing and it's what builds empathy really and once that is completely gone it scares me what kind of culture were left with, especially how grief and lament and sorrow and all these amazing things, how are they going to be handled if all that is gone? Ok, so the service has finished and the coffin's on its way to Windsor eventually, where the queen will be laid to rest. What's your overriding final thought do you think on the whole process, the last few hours, few days, week?

Chris: 24:40

Well, certainly the last few hours and the funeral, it'll be about power I think. Just an impressive display of power, whether that's the status of group action, music, volume, words that were said it's just been a real display of power, I think. And that as part of setting a scene of grieving, of mourning, is quite something to behold. I think to see so many people, so many hundreds, if not thousands of people in uniformed ways standing and paying their respects and just being part of this occasion, it's just been just something I'll never forget really, what about yourself?

Claire: 25:22

Yeah, I think it's been... I've been really impressed at how well it's been handled, and I don't mean like the organisation but more the, the mourning process. Being so aware of grief and loss and what's needed now, a lot more than I would have been two, three years ago just from doing the podcast and chatting to people who have been through it, I found this really impressive. Because I feel like we've had that time of being able to watch people going to visit the coffin or people having been themselves, we've had a long gap, to just think about it and do that whole 'I can't believe she's not here anymore', which I think happens a lot with when you lose somebody. We've had the service that's been a real testament to her, we've we're seeing all the respect all the people want to say goodbye, we're seeing all the countries that were involved in that coming together at the end here now represented across the military. And I think it's just been a... I feel like it's walked me through what a mourning process should actually look like, yes, on a massive scale, but this is something we can boil down to our own little losses, whether bereavements or otherwise. And I think now I've got that common feeling that you get sometimes after someone's died, where, after the funeral, there's this sort of rising fear in you of 'what next?' because you know that from that point onwards, life goes back to normal for so many people, and it's, you're left with that, that loss, and although we aren't feeling it, like the family will be, it's that sort of, that's it, it's over, like, all the processions finished, all the lying in state is finished, she will be in her final resting place, she will just be another king or queen on a list, and we move forward, and that's always a bit frightening because it involves a lot of change and I think the whole country will be feeling that a bit. But that is exactly what happens when you lose somebody when there's a loss or when you lose something. So I think for me, it's been a really great example of how we can mourn things, how we can, you know, put what it is that we've lost lying-in-state somewhere, have it around you for a few weeks, visit it, you know, I don't know, there's so much I feel like I can take from it, so it's been really helpful.

Chris: 27:27

I like that. Certainly I agree with that. I think as you're speaking it made me think of the the framework that we've got to consider the funerals that we're going to be a part of in the years ahead, because they are coming, you know, we are going to be attending a number of funerals in the next ten years. And we don't know when we don't know where they will be. We have both of our parents, both sets of parents still alive still with us, thank God. And this just gives us a really interesting framework for how things can be done on this sort of scale and with reuniting families with time set aside, where we look, and what we do during times of mourning, certainly on this national level, it's been really interesting to take notes from it for our own personal lives and funerals to come.

Claire: 28:15

Yeah, I feel like who has organised all of this is really, because, you know, how do you walk a nation through grief? I mean, that is a fascinating concept in itself. But whoever's done that has has really thought it through. And I think have done a really good job for those that wanted to engage, but equally, it hasn't been in your face so much that if you don't want to engage you didn't have to. So I think that's been a really nice balance. So yeah, a lot a lot to take out of this going forward, and a lot of people can learn from it, to help with their own lives. We were talking this morning about funerals when when how many we've been to in our life, and when I look back across, I think we counted up nearly 15-20 funerals that I've been to, when I look back across and they were all so different, and everyone handled them all, in completely different ways. And this gives me a framework, I think for kind of looking at those and you know analysing what they were like and how they felt and what I may or may not have dealt with back then. And then moving forwards and how I would actually handle on look at funerals and things in the future, which is again really helpful.

Chris: 29:20

When I die, if you're still alive, do you think 4 billion people will be watching my funeral?

Claire: 29:26

Yeah, I mean, I will literally, I will do my best to live stream as much as I can for our 15 YouTube subscribers.

Chris: 29:35

They'll appreciate that.

Claire: 29:36

By then, obviously I might have like 40, but I will definitely be putting it out there for people to come and be a part of.

Chris: 29:43

So there we have it, a rather unusual episode as we concluoos (!), as we conclude the period of mourning, national period of mourning of 10 days, with today there's the funeral it's just happened, there's another service at Windsor a bit later on in the day, and then another private family service this evening. So quite a lot going on today for the family and those closest to the Queen, and now the king. But yeah, it's been really interesting to spend these last couple of episodes, you know, as we said at the start of this episode that we are a podcast that explores whether hope can be found in all types of loss, on a mission to explore 101 different types of loss. Never thought we'd be doing the loss of a Queen, but that was the last episode so really interesting to be able to share this experience with you.[Thanks!] You're welcome. [God Save the King!] If you want to find out more about The Silent Why podcast look online at www.thesilentwhy.com. [laughs] I nearly said 'podcast' in there! TheSilentWhy.com is our website, you'll find all about us and our mission, why we're doing it, where we're up to in that mission. And then there's the social media feeds as well, you've been putting out quite a bit of royal stuff... And the last couple of blogs that you've done have been really beautiful. So well worth checking out Claire's, last couple of My Why's, which had been released in the last few weeks. So do take a listen to them as well. And find all our social media stuff, just search for the@thesilentwhypod and you'll find your way to it.

Westminster Abbey Singing: 31:08

God grant to the living grace; to the departed rest; to the Church, The King, the Commonwealth, and all people, peace and concord, and to us sinners, life everlasting; and the blessing of God almighty, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, be among you and remain with you always. Amen.[The Last Post is played out on Bugles]