The Silent Why: finding hope in grief and loss

Let's Chat... Funeral Celebrants (with Evelyn Calaunan)

August 23, 2022 Claire Sandys, Evelyn Calaunan Episode 46
The Silent Why: finding hope in grief and loss
Let's Chat... Funeral Celebrants (with Evelyn Calaunan)
Show Notes Transcript

#046.  What's it like to spend your day job leading other people's funerals? And what are the top things you should put in place for your own?

Welcome back to Let’s Chat…

These episodes pop-up every now-and-then instead of one of our 101 different types of loss, as I (Claire Sandys, one of the co-hosts of The Silent Why podcast) chat to a guest who has experience or expertise in a particular area that can help us deal with, or prepare for, loss.

In this Let’s Chat… I speak to Evelyn Calaunan about being a Funeral Celebrant.

Evelyn lives in the Blue Mountains in Australia, where she’s lived for over 20 years, but her accent reflects her earlier years spent growing up in US Army bases around the world. Her father’s sudden death and becoming a funeral celebrant have profoundly changed her life and I was very curious to hear more about what a role like this does, and what she’s seen and experienced in the world of funerals - and I was not disappointed!

She shares her world of leading funerals, funeral planning, memorable experiences, practical tips for thinking about how we want to be remembered, stories of saying goodbye to old and young, and an infectious zest for life and her job.

And with each Let's Chat guest I'm building a whole tool shed (metaphorically), of tools to help you face and get through loss. So let’s see what Evelyn adds to my growing list of tools.

Evelyn has her own podcast where she explores the narrative of people’s lives by having courageous conversations that tackle compelling topics to help us expand our minds, gain perspective and inspire us to do things differently.
For more information visit: Life’s Rich Tapestry - https://lifesrichtapestry.com.au/

And you can find out more about Evelyn’s work via:
www.bluemountainscelebrant.com.au
www.facebook.com/bluemountainscelebrantfunerals www.instagram.com/bluemountainscelebrantfunerals 

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Thank you for listening.

Claire:

Hello there, lovely you. And thanks for joining me on another episode of Let's chat... I'm Claire Sandys, Owner, Managing Director, Founder of The Silent Why podcast (I can basically name my title!). I'm also the blog writer for the written and audio blog that I put out on www.thesilentwhy.com. In these Let's Chat... episodes, I chat to a guest who has experience or expertise in a particular area that can either help us deal with, or prepare for, loss. And through them, because I wanted to capture some useful magic from each chat, a bit like the Herman's on our usual episodes, I'm building a tool shed, metaphorically of equipment to help us face and get through loss and grief. At the end of each episode, I ask our guests what sort of tool their subject is, and then I add it to my shed. So far, I have acquired a very useful range of tools, and I'm trying to think of a way to illustrate my shed so you can see them all as my collection grows. On this episode of Let's Chat... I'm chatting to Evelyn Calaunan, who is a Funeral Celebrant and lives in the Blue Mountains in Australia, where she's lived for over 20 years -despite having a different accent! I was very curious to hear about what a role like this does and what she's seen and experienced in the world of funerals. And I was not disappointed. Evelyn has her own podcast - Life's Rich Tapestry - where she has courageous conversations captured from the heart. So grab a cup of tea or coffee or maybe a cold ginger beer and relax with me and Evelyn as we chat Funeral Celebrants.

Evelyn:

My name is Evelyn and I live in Australia, the Blue Mountains to be exact. I've been in Australia for over 20 years. And I am a funeral celebrant and have been since January 2008. I mean, I do have a bit of an American accent. And I've I've found that through my ceremonies because I have an American accent. People actually listen to me. So it's actually a good thing. So that's actually served me well. I also do marriages as well, baby namings. And in the last how many years that is like, I guess that's 14 years, I've done over 600 ceremonies. In the 600 ceremonies, I would say about 400 have actually been funerals. So I feel I have a bit of experience behind what a funeral is, what a memorial is. And I definitely know that there is a lot of value in having an end of life ceremony.

Claire:

So why don't you tell us what the difference is between being a funeral celebrant, or like a funeral director or a vicar or someone that leads a funeral?

Evelyn:

Okay. When someone passes away, they usually call a funeral home and the funeral home is called to take care of the body basically. For a ceremony, the family can decide to just run the ceremony by themselves or they can hire me as a professional. And I will help them to put the ceremony together. And I'm pretty much the voice for their day. Or they can hire someone who is religious if they want. But being a funeral celebrant, you don't actually need to be qualified. In Australia you don't you don't have to have a so called qualification. Anyone can be a funeral celebrant. So you'll find that sometimes when a family member dies, they won't necessarily look for a professional or for someone who's done it for a while, they will actually just ask a friend or a family to run the ceremony, feeling that they know the person best but there's a bit of a fine line because when you know someone really well, your emotions get in the way. So I have found that it is better to hire a funeral celebrant or, you know, a pastor or a minister, whatever you believe in. What I do, I do mainly non denominational ceremonies and in Australia, I would say of all the funerals, that mostly 70% of funeral ceremonies are run by a funeral celebrant. So they're kind of getting away from the religious ceremonies.

Claire:

How did you fall into this kind of line of work? What took you into it?

Evelyn:

You know, you turn a certain age or you go through something horrific in your life and you think, 'Oh, what am I going to do? How am I going to change my life?' Or 'what kind of job am I going to get?' Well, I was just thinking, what I could grow old into. And I just naturally thought you know what I like speaking and I love ceremonies. So I'm going to be a wedding celebrant. I'm going to do weddings. However, when I enrolled for the course, I'm a bit of a bargain shopper too, they offered at the school they said all if you do the wedding celebrant course you can get the funeral celebrant course for 25 percent off. And I thought, 'Oh, that's great. I'll do that. Fantastic'. So I ended up doing both of the courses. And the truth is I loved the funeral celebrant course it was a bit of a introduction to what being a funeral celebrant would be like. I mean, I thought like, there's no way I could do because I'm way too emotional. But I loved it. I really enjoyed the course, a lot. And so, after I did the course, a friend of mine, she actually wanted to become a mortician. And we ended up seeing in the Blue Mountains, there was an advertisement in our local paper, saying that a local funeral home, they were advertising, so sort of an informational day, so we decided to go, just to see what it was about. And because we were quite young, at that stage, not now, but at that stage, we were pretty young. They asked us why we were there? And I said,'Well, my friend wants to be a mortician. And I just did the funeral celebrant course'. And this funeral home, they actually took us on. And we did kind of like a one week, sort of apprentice training and see if we liked it, because you don't really know if you like something like that until you actually do it. So I think a lot of us are fascinated by death and cemeteries. But when you're thrown in with a person who's grieving or when you actually see a dead body, it's totally different. But after our first week of initiation, we thought'no, we love it, we're going to do it'. So she ended up learning to be a mortician. And I was they gave me the opportunity to be a celebrant, so I was able to do my very first funeral within two weeks of joining that funeral home. So I'm really grateful to that funeral home, I've always had a bit of a fascination with death, not fascination, I've always liked cemeteries. And my father died in 1997. And this funeral didn't go so well. Like I have quite a difficult last name. And the preacher, he couldn't actually say the name correctly. Like he said it wrong three times, that really annoyed me. The music was bad. And there were a few other things that didn't go right. And that really stuck in my head. So with that experience, I thought, you know what, if I ever do anything in the funeral industry, which I wasn't thinking I was going to, I want to make sure that those things are right, that I say person's name right, the music's right. That's very important for me. So I've kind of taken that, I guess, past experience. And I've been to a few bad funerals. And I always want to make it better.

Claire:

Yeah, it's such an important kind of part of all of the grieving process. And so you don't want to be distracted by things like, 'Oh, I've got my name wrong', or 'that's not right', or, you know, you've got enough going on on that day without those little things. So I'm sure people really appreciate that attention to detail. So obviously, it's an area that some people are going to be like, it's depressing. I mean, how can you find enjoyment in being at other people's funerals as like part of a day job? So what is it that you enjoy? And how could you explain it to somebody who doesn't quite

Evelyn:

I'm a naturally inquisitive person, I love to understand it? get to know people's lives, and what makes them tick. And I know that on that day, the family are not able to speak on behalf of their loved one because they're too emotionally attached. And I personally wouldn't be able to speak. If it was my mother, my brother, my son, I couldn't speak. So I know that I am their voice for the day. So it is important for me to make sure that I say everything they want me to say. I mean, I when I get a funeral, I have a whole list of questions. And by the end of two to three hours that I'm with them, sometimes I'm not there with them all the time that long, but it can be at least two hours that I'm with the family. There's kind of this hill that I go over that I feel like I actually know the person. I mean, it takes a few really deep questions. And because I don't know the family dynamic, sometimes I step onto things that I didn't realise was a bit of an issue. And at the end of me being with a family, they'll often say, 'Oh, God, I'm so glad you brought that up. That's been such a sore point. But you brought it up, we've all sort of talked about it. And it's really helped us, you know, get clear on a lot of things'.

Claire:

Do you ever find that you do get emotional? Do you ever get to know them so well, and then you do struggle a little bit during the service?

Evelyn:

Yeah, I mean, I do have to admit, when I first started I totally identify with that. I've noticed it more in myself the job, I cried at every single funeral which at first the funeral director said 'gosh you're good value, Evelyn! Great funeral', but then, you know, after the twelfth funeral, he said to me said 'you know, Evelyn, and I don't think this job is for you'. And then I was like, 'but I but I'm emotional. They like me' and he said, 'No', he goes, 'it's not your grief. It's their grief. You're their voice'. And that made so much sense to me. So I ended up going to therapy. And I worked on a few unresolved grief issues that I had. Because the truth is, if you don't work, your grief issues out, they're going to come out at anything. You can watch a movie, conduct a funeral, when you're a funeral celebrant, you've got to work on your own grief. And I didn't realise that until after I was actually fired. So I was fired after a few months. And I didn't go back till about two or three years later, I went back to being a funeral celebrant. But I needed those two and a half years to regroup. And to figure out what he was talking about, and also work on my sort of grief issues that I had myself. And I find it now when I do a ceremony, I will see someone in the back just bawling their eyes out. And I'll ask the family,'who was that guy in the back?' And they'll say to me, 'we have no idea who that was'. Obviously, it's someone who hasn't worked on their grief, because it'll keep coming up if you don't work with it. And I just want to share a story. I did a memorial over last weekend. And what happened is the elderly lady, she passed away in Melbourne, Victoria, but her family is in New South Wales. So they were thinking about not having a funeral. And I was speaking to the daughter. And she said 'no, because I actually didn't want to have a funeral at all. I was just thinking there's no way I don't want to do this. It's, it's too hard'. And then I said, 'That's exactly why you need to have a memorial, or a funeral. Because if you don't, it's going to come out later. And it's going to come out when you watch television, or at someone's funeral that you didn't know. And it doesn't look right'. So I see it a lot. I do see it a lot. Some of us are emotional anyways, I cry all the time. I love to cry. But a lot of people don't like to cry. So they hold it in. as well a lot since doing the podcast and chatting to people who have worked through their grief. Like you said, certain things you can watch on TV and you're like, even know in your heart of hearts. Like, I'm not sad at this, there's something else that's in me that sad at this, like that's not something I would naturally get sad at, or you just cry. Or it might even be times you feel like happy tears, but it's a reaction to something else. And I'm learning more and more that if that's there, there's like, 'Okay, I need to look at that I need to find out what it is' because it like you said, if not it just comes out somewhere else, and usually somewhere inappropriate. And the response is completely not in proportion to what you're dealing with. Exactly.

Claire:

So it's really interesting that you would see people going through that that must be quite hard to see it happening and know someone probably needs to work through that, but then having to let them walk out the door with it again.

Evelyn:

Yeah, I mean, I'm there to create the most amazing ceremony ever for them. And that is the first step. Obviously, I won't follow the family after that. Usually, usually they might ring me, you know, a month or two later and say, 'Oh, we're doing well' or, especially if I feel really close to a family, I'll send them a Christmas card. And they'll just say, 'Oh, thank you so much for acknowledging, you know, our loved one'. And I have found with people who've passed away, they feel comfortable in talking to me about their loved one because because I kind of know the story. But they don't feel comfortable with people who are still alive talking about their person who's passed away. So every now and then people will contact me. I think people naturally just want their friends or loved ones to move on. But sometimes just talking about their person whose past is is okay. It doesn't mean they're holding on to their grief.

Claire:

I mean, I will be one of the ones who's probably a bit guilty of having the thought of'let's just skip the funeral'. Like when someone dies. It's like, 'Oh, my word. I don't know if I want to face this' because it's not straight away. It can be four or five weeks later, sometimes you think, oh, it's gonna dig it up again. I was just starting to process. So what part do you think the funeral plays in like the grieving and loss process? How important is that stage?

Evelyn:

I think it's very important in the grief process. And I think it's very important to have the body there. Sometimes people have memorials where the ashes are there, which which is fine. But I think there's more a sort of depth of knowing, 'oh, my gosh, my loved one has passed away'. You really need to go through that. And I know it's horrible. But you just have to go through it. You can't go around it. You can't go left. You can't go right. You have to go through. And I think burials are very confrontational because it's so in your face and you see the coffin going down. And it's very emotional. But it's there's something really cathartic about wailing and crying, and even being around that sort of energy. I know a lot of people don't like it, but there's something really cathartic and really beautiful about it as well. So I think having a funeral is really necessary because if you don't, it's something that subconsciously is going to be in the back of your mind. I'll just give you an example, I did a funeral for elderly lady. She was in her 80s and was speaking to her husband and her husband was saying, 'oh, you know, she lost her young baby when, you know, she was only a year old'. I said,'That's horrible'. He goes,'Yeah, every New Year's Eve, you know, she would get really upset'. And I said, 'Oh, my goodness'. I said, 'Well, did you have anything for it?' He goes 'no, we didn't. We have the ashes in the cupboard. She had the ashes in the cupboard for 80 years. And every year on the date of the daughter's birthday, they would, she would get so upset, because she never worked through it. So what happened, I actually suggested to him, I said, 'Maybe we should put the ashes in in the coffin with her'. And he just thought that was the greatest idea. But for 80 years, because she didn't have a ceremony, she didn't, she didn't want to talk about her baby. But her husband obviously knew that, you know, it was the anniversary, and she would get really upset. And they never did anything with the ashes, they didn't have a funeral. So yeah, I know that there definitely is value in having having a ceremony. It's not easy, but it's something that we have to go through.

Claire:

I have been to a couple of funerals that have been more, so you have the burial beforehand.

Evelyn:

Yeah.

Claire:

And it's just close family and friends. And then there's a little service at the grave, and then you bury the body, and then you have a service of celebration, if that's appropriate, because it's not appropriate for everybody. You have a service of celebration afterwards, which is more thanks for the life, which can work quite well, i you give enough time at the grave. I think you could rush that bit. And then move into the celebration, like you said, not fully kind of work through the feelings of losing somebody. Have you been at the graveside, just doing the burial bit? Or are they in like churches or buildings? Where do you tend to do these?

Evelyn:

I usually more I don't do those sorts of ceremonies, it's usually the family will, will maybe have a private cremation, spend time with the body or have a private burial. And I'm then hired to do the more the, you know, the celebration of life or whatever the service, and I'll be, I'm kind of the MC in a way, but I do more than an MC because most of the time people can't talk. So they're not able to speak because as soon as they talk about their loved one, they just they're they start bawling, which is fine and I think it's great if they try to speak and actually work through what they're saying. Even if they cry. I mean, it's a funeral. It's a memorial and everyone says it to me, I don't want to speak because I'm going to cry. It's like, well, maybe you shouldn't speak if you feel that way, because you actually get through it, it might be that first initial, you know, but then once that, once you do your deep breathing, and go into it, they're so grateful that they actually did it. And I do understand, especially if it's a spouse where it's hard, they can't speak at all. So I always suggest for them to write a letter, a love letter, their last love letter, and I can read it out for them if they want, or we can just put it in the coffin or have it go in the coffin with them. And they feel relief in that, that they were able at least to say something that they know that they've said something. It is hard to speak at a funeral. I mean, first, it's hard to speak at all, most people don't like to public speak, but when you're public speaking and talking about your emotion, that's like double whammy. So a lot of people don't like it. So there's this fear already fear of death, fear of speaking, it's, you know, it's like all combined in delivering a eulogy or tribute. But I think when people go through it, they find it so cathartic. And they're so grateful that they've actually done that.

Claire:

We interviewed a murder detective recently. And he was saying that the funeral of his father, he had to write a eulogy and talk about it. And he they're not when wasn't really an emotional person for talking about these things. But he said he just lost it at the funeral just bawled and bawled, and couldn't work out sort of why it felt disproportionate, really, but he thinks that was part of his a lot of what he'd been through in his career, had suddenly it all kind of got on the back of this grief of his father, and it just all came out at once. It's just so interesting how it's like always trying to find a way out. It's not content to stay in you at any point.

Evelyn:

Exactly. If you don't get it out. It's going to form somehow in illness in headaches. It's got to come out somehow. And I know it's hard for people to let things out. It's such a weird time right now. We're so open about things on social media about our lives, but deep intimate things we can be, but not really. A lot of us are afraid to just cry and let go. I think that's what it is surrendering. They don't know what's going to happen. They just know if they start crying, they're not going to stop and that's what a lot of people they just don't want to go through a funeral but they have to.

Claire:

It's hard and then you get to the ugly cry stage where you know, you face looks a mess and it creases up.

Evelyn:

I know!

Claire:

None of us want to be that person. And yet when we see someone else going through it, most of us have nothing but complete compassion and admiration for someone who's letting it out. And yet for some reason, it feels so difficult to let it out.

Evelyn:

Exactly.

Claire:

Especially in Britain, we're particularly kind of buttoned up like that, is that the case in Australia?

Evelyn:

Well, I a lot of Australians are, you know, British, it is a multicultural sort of country. But we do have a lot of Asians here as well. And Asians tend to be quite quiet too. But we also have then the Maori culture from New Zealand, and those sorts of cultures of the islanders. And they go through their, like three day ritual of having the body at home, they hire an official mourner. And it's a totally different way of grieving, but afterwards, they feel amazing. Afterwards, you know, they just feel relief. I look at crying as just a relief. And I'm one of those people, I don't mind crying, and I don't care who sees me cry. I think people are embarrassed to see you cry. You know what I mean? I think that's what is, it's not just being sad, it's being embarrassed, oh, my gosh, they're gonna see me cry. That's what it is, or lose control. And I don't think my job is sad at all. I love it. I see so many people who've got so many interesting lives, you know, people who live, I go all over New South Wales, and people have the most interesting lives. And it really has added this richness of life to me. And it's also made me realise that life is really short. So you need, you just need to go for it, and do things. So especially with somebody young, and when you do a sudden death, you just realise life is so short. And I just feel I feel grateful. But I feel grateful to be a voice for that family. And it doesn't matter how old the person is. And I know people say how can you do a baby? Doing a baby's very difficult or stillbirth is very, very difficult. Because that person that baby wasn't given an opportunity to live. But the family, the mum and the father, they developed a relationship with that little baby inside. And the grandparents did too. You know, whatever sort of funeral it is, you have to focus on that you always have to focus on love. That is what funerals are about. It's about love. And I love focusing on love. So I don't find it depressing at all. I enjoy it so much. And you know, if I figure someone's got to do a job, and you've got to hire someone, you better hire someone who enjoys what she's doing. Because you don't want someone depressing out there. And you don't want you know, what's viewed on television, someone dark black and boring and low, you know, you can't say their name. You know, you want somebody who's fun and energetic. That's where celebrates come in. And I think that's why the percentage of celebrant funerals has gone up. Because people do want something different now, they want more celebration, they want something fun, they want something different. They don't want the typical. Though, not taking anything away from the typical, I think the typical also has a place as well, for my mother, she would be appalled if if, if we do what I want to do at my funeral. I mean, I want to have a disco ball, I want to have a great, you know what I mean? I want really good music. But my mother would be you know, she would be appalled. So you know, it would be the typical sort of things for her that we would have. But I mean, another thing about funerals is that they're difficult to talk about. And they shouldn't be, it shouldn't be something that we all want to talk about. Because when we think about our mortality, I think we truly live life more. Because it's going to end we know our lives are going to end. And I think that's what's happened with me doing this job for so long. I realised life is gonna end. I gotta make the most of it.

Claire:

You mentioned babies there, early on. Is that something where people might be more tempted to skip a funeral? If it's like a stillborn or something very early on? And do you have any kind of thoughts on how important a funeral is at that stage?

Evelyn:

I think stillbirth is very important. A lot of couples feel 'oh no, it didn't even live, you know, my baby didn't even live, not even one breath'. In Australia, I don't know how it is in England, after 21 weeks, you have to register the death. So at that time, when you register the death, you can decide if you want to have you know, a funeral or celebration. But you're right, a lot of people feel like 'oh, well, they didn't live, forget it. Let's just you know, try again or we won't try at all'. So a lot of people do miss that step. They don't do it. But I find that it's really healing for the couple to go through it. I mean, it's the hardest thing ever, even for me, it's hard. You know, especially when, you know, the couple brings in the baby and in a little box carries it in. It's so sad. And they all choose, you know, Tears in Heaven for Eric Clapton. But as soon as that, you know, everyone, you know, even the funeral directors are crying. So it's so sad. But, but then afterwards, they feel so good. And I feel so grateful that they've done it. And actually, a really, really good story is I did a funeral two years ago, she was 37 weeks. So it was two weeks before the baby was born. So I did the ceremony for her. And it was so sad because her father had died, like three months before. And so it was just it was really, it was just sad. It was sad, sad, sad, you know, we released balloons. And the baby looked amazing because it was so close to being full term. And then two years later, I married a couple, and then I looked at the mother of the groom that I was married to cut. She looks so familiar. And then, and then so she came up to me, she goes, 'Oh, you probably don't remember me'. And I said,'Oh, no, I do. I kind of do. But I, I can't place to you'. And she goes 'O you did my daughter's funeral for her baby, two years ago'. And I said, oh', and I was marrying her son. And I had no idea, I mean, not marrying her son, but you know, married her son with another lady. And then, and then she said, 'Oh, she's just had a baby'.I didn't realise she was actually at the ceremony because they came in late. And then I saw her with the baby. And that was just so beautiful to see. But then, you know, I did another recent one where the girl was older, she was 39. And the baby had passed, 21 weeks, it wasn't very long. And they put off having a funeral for about a month or two, because they just didn't know what to do, but then they finally decided, 'I just need to acknowledge that I was a parent, I really want to acknowledge, because of our age', I think he was early 40s, 'I don't think we'll get a chance to actually have a baby'. So it took them a while to really do the ceremony. But when they did, they were really, really grateful.

Claire:

You mentioned Tears in Heaven there. What sort of role does music play? You must hear a whole variety of different types

Evelyn:

I think music is so important. Music is like the of music. playlist of your life, anyone who's listening, I really think you should create a playlist of your songs, all of your music, you know, it's so important, actually, the music you choose really gives an insight into you and to your personality, you know, like 'wow', and have that music playing at the wake. In Australia a wake is the reception sort of after the ceremony. And if you create a playlist of your life, tell people like 'oh, if I die make sure you play this at my wake' it sets the tone I mean music sets the tone for any event. And I think it's good to have some sad songs in there too. You know sad, happy I love the first bit when you walk in to a ceremony, I like it to be really sad, you know where we can get all of our emotions out and cry. And you know, began having a really boom boom boom song that will make people really remember their their loved one. It is hard for a baby. There's nothing happy you can play when a baby dies. But you know, there's some beautiful things you can do at the end. You can you know, release a butterfly or release the balloon. Balloons are a bit naughty here in Australia because there's so environmental here, which is fine, but so, you know, release something into the air or whatever.

Claire:

Is there any songs that you're particularly fed up with? Or you get a sigh because you're like, 'Oh, not again'?

Evelyn:

You know what's amazing is there's a lot of songs that get played at a lot of funerals, but they work really well. You know, 'Time to Say Goodbye' works really well from Sarah Brightman. 'The Rainbow Song you know Somewhere Over the Rainbow that gets played a lot but it's actually really beautiful and it works really well. And it's quite happy as well Somewhere Over the Rainbow and the ukulele it's fantastic. Till We Meet Again from Vera Lynn has a great song for for the oldies, they love that, or anything from the 40s they love. And I find with music, music, everyone loves to talk about music. So that's something easy. You can talk to people about music, no one wants to talk about death. They don't. But I think people do like to talk about music in general, most people do like music. So, you know, what's your funeral song? I don't know. I love asking people what their funeral song is. They think I'm a bit strange, but I love finding out what it is, because it reveals so much about them.

Claire:

Yeah, no, it's a good thing to think about because like you said, it really does, you feel like it's your, well it's your swan song really. You feel like there's, well this is it now, what do I what do I want to leave? How do I want to leave it? And what an honour for the artist as well? who's written those songs? To think that people have chosen that song to represent their life? I mean, that's amazing.

Evelyn:

Yeah.

Claire:

Have you found that your experience of doing this has helped you personally when it comes to dealing with grief or loss in your own life?

Evelyn:

Well, I think because I have done quite a few sudden deaths. When something bothers me, I like to get it off my chest right away, because I might not get a chance tomorrow, just in case. Or I'd like to I like to get things over and done with if I can. Not housework, I hate housework that can stay. But if it's something that's bothering me, you know, I need to let somebody know.

Claire:

Have you got like a best experience that you've had? I don't know how to describe it, because it could obviously be it might have been a really sad one.

Evelyn:

I've had lots of moments where amazing things have happened. Like for instance, I did a ceremony. It was very, very sad. But it was a young boy, he drowned in the bathtub. So it was about eight years old was really, really sad. And at this particular funeral, I was actually just a staff member, I wasn't the celebrant because the funeral was conducted by a Minister. So we went to the cemetery. And when we were at the cemetery, the coffin was lowered. And we released balloons, then the their last song played. And the song was, I don't know about the artist, I don't like the artist anymore because of things that have happened. But the song at that time was good. And it was the song from from R Kelly, I Believe I Can Fly. So anyways, so that song, I Believe I Can Fly, you know, that was going all over through the air through the cemetery. And we're all quiet, you know? Because what do you do, you're quiet. And all of a sudden, his three year old brother points up in the sky. And at that moment, towards the end of the song. 'I believe I can touch the sky...' I mean, I can't remember all the lyrics. But at that moment, there was one single balloon over all of us, because all of them had flown away because it was quite windy, you know. So that was amazing. And then there are times where I, you know, I'll just say something or a family member will say something and light will flicker in at that moment. Or I can't close the curtain the curtain it won't let me close. And then someone will say, 'Oh, that's Aunt Freda, she doesn't want to go yet!' You know, there was one particular funeral that I was doing, and there was a bird behind me at the window and it made so much noise it was tap, tap tap. And so I had to turn around. And I said, 'Oh my God, what? What's happening with that bird?' And I remember the person in the front row was the daughter of the mom who passed away she said,'That's my mother's favourite bird'. Yeah, so that was she said, 'I think that's my mom saying goodbye', or whatever, you know, something like that. I love those moments. It's interesting, what I love is, because I love to public speak, at first, when I was doing this job, I didn't really do the eye contact thing because people get really nervous. But now I do the eye contact thing. So I look at people, and usually they look down because it's just they're just embarrassed. But this one particular funeral, I was talking about someone who had passed and and then I was talking about her deep friendship with a gentleman that was sitting in the front. And, and then I was just looking at him and I was just talking about the deep friendship and then all of a sudden a tear just went down his cheek. And we just had that moment. So there's a lot of moments like that, which I love. You know, I was with a particular person who's who's quite well, quite well known artist in Australia. And, and his brother had passed and I just as I left, I said to him,'how are you? Are you okay?' And he just hugged me. And he hugged me so deeply. It was like he really needed that sort of moment. So there's a lot of those moments that I really love about this job. And I mean, it is sad. There are lots of sad moments. But I think when people meet with me, and all the questions are answered, and it's really healing for them. Another thing I found is when I go to meet these families, a lot of the families have been taking care of their loved one for maybe a year or two and haven't really had much interaction with other people. So when I walk in and they hear my accent they want to find out about my life, which is fine. So I'll just talk about my life. And then they feel comfortable with me. Then we start laughing have a cup of tea might even have a beer, and then we just start talking about their loved one. Yeah. And then it just it goes from there.

Claire:

I mean, it's that deep human connection, isn't it? Yeah, you can't replace that. And there's very few jobs that give that to you. So I can see why that's something that really feeds back into you again. Do you know the youngest funeral you've done and the oldest funeral?

Evelyn:

So the youngest was the the 21 weeks the stillbirth, and then the oldest was just recently, actually about a month or two ago when she was 103. So that was the oldest I've never done anyone that old before. So that was that was that was good.

Claire:

So what, what would you say people would be like the two or three most important things people need to think about if they're thinking about planning their own funeral, or they're, or they're planning a funeral for somebody else? What are the key things that they you think like, these are really important?

Evelyn:

I think, obviously, you need to think first if you want to be cremated or buried. That's number one. A lot of people have definite ideas of what they want and I think they need to let let their family know because families have been divided over that. I think music is important. Pick your funeral music. I've had people fight over songs, you know, seriously?! Because the truth is funerals and memorials, they're for the living, not for the dead. And that's why a lot of people say 'you know what, just throw me in the garbage, I don't care or roll me out in the wheelie bin'. But the truth is, funerals and memorials are for the living. So I think like me,'I'm gonna die, cremate me, I want you to play this song. And that's it. You do whatever you need to do to get over my death.'

Claire:

And so before I ask my last question, what's your funeral song?

Evelyn:

So I've got I've got a few. So I've got a few coming in. And so... [laughs]

Claire:

What's your current funeral song, I should say, I'm sure it changes regularly!

Evelyn:

It does! Well there's a song that Beyonce sings. And it is - I Was Here, is the song. And I just love it. I Was Here. I just I love it. I love that song. But the song when the curtain closes, I want it to be, and I know this is this is a bit this is a bit kind of sick in a way, but it's Disco Inferno, because because before I thought it was cool, like when the internet came out, one of my emails is DiscoEv and the year I was born, which I thought was really cool. It's not cool now because everyone knows how old I am. I've always had disco in my email. And I love disco music. So I don't always think Disco Inferno and I'm going to be cremated. So I think that's kind of cool.

Claire:

Yeah, well that's perfect. My dad's got a very dry sense of humour, and I remember him saying he wants to song Tears of a Clown. Well, I remember very young chatting to my grandma. And there was a hymn we used to sing at church called'There's a Friend for Little Children' (above the bright blue sky), and it talks about Heaven. And I remember saying to her if I don't want this at my funeral.

Evelyn:

Yes.

Claire:

Talking to you now, it's made me realise how open that subject was, for me at quite a young age chatting about what we wanted at the funeral. You know, when my grandparents died, they had a folder of all their stuff in it. And if we, as a child, we saw something we liked. They'd be like, 'Oh, put your name next to it in the book. And then you can have that', and we're like,'Oh, great', and we'd fight over it as grandchildren who got this and who got that. But it was just such an open topic. It never felt depressing. It never felt sad. It was a celebration of remembering them afterwards. And I'm very grateful for that.

Evelyn:

I actually do have a just in case folder, I have just a few like insurances that I have that my husband won't really know about and got some account details. And I've got my funeral songs in there as well. I also put photos I mean, one thing if you really want to do one thing, put in the photos of what you want on your slideshow, because I've seen so many slideshows, and some of those photos, I think, oh my God, you're kidding me? I don't I'm sure she wouldn't have wanted that photo!

Claire:

Get photoshopping them now, so that they look extra good after you're dead.

Evelyn:

Exactly. If you want to leave a message, why don't you? I mean, you know, we can leave a message now you know, 'just want you to know that I love you' or whatever. So there are those are things that we can do before we die. But really the funeral is for the living and I think we need to give permission to our loved ones to have whatever they need. I think that's really important. Because I have met people that said, 'You know what, we didn't have a funeral because my dad didn't want one'. But the truth is, the funeral is for the living, not the dead.

Claire:

My last question, so we're talking about funeral celebrants? What kind of tool do you think a funeral celebrant is in the role of people going through grief and loss?

Evelyn:

I look at being a celebrant as being a clamp, you know, a clamp that holds things together. You don't necessarily need it, but when you have it, it holds things together. It connects things. It just binds things together, that's what clamps do. And the clamp is like I said, it's not necessary, but it makes things better when you use a clamp, especially when you use it when you're building, you know, when you're clamping things. It's connecting and it's holding it together. And I think a funeral celebrant holds it together, because they're not attached to the family. They're there to do a job. And they will make sure that that family member is represented and that everyone has the best funeral that they've ever experienced.

Claire:

Another most useful tool that I don't already have. I really do need to come up with a way to illustrate this shed because it's becoming something I really want to see visually. If you want to find out more about Evelyn, you can check out her podcast, Life's Rich Tapestry and her social media. And I'll put links in the show notes. Thank you so much for this fascinating insight into your work, Evelyn. We could have talked for hours about all the different aspects of this and there's so many useful and practical tips there for us all to think about. If I had the rights to play music, and play us out with one of your songs. And thank you for listening to The Silent Why podcast. If you've got a subject you'd like me to chat to an expert on. Please get in touch via social media or the website or via email, thesilentwhy@gmail.com and let's chat!

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