101 LOSS COUNTDOWN: 50 down, 51 to go

#101.  Another milestone reached! We've hit loss number 50 on our mission to explore 101 different types, meaning we only have 51 (!) to go. So we're just half an episode away from being halfway through all 101!

In this episode we (Chris & Claire Sandys) pause briefly to discuss the last batch of losses, 41-50, and what nuggets of wisdom we've taken from each guest.

We're loving every second of talking to others on this podcast, but we're also learning a lot about healthy ways to process our own grief, whether childlessness, pets, relatives, friends, health, or even just the day-to-day losses we sometimes face.

And the not-yet-famous-but-might-be-one-day 'Hermontage' is back! As we, once again, mix together the last 10 guest's Hermans. If you don't know what a Herman is, check out the link below.

Huge thanks to Losses 41-50: Lisa Kolb Ruland, Harry Kind, Chris Lord-Brown and Jonathen Harty (double guest episode), Samantha Langford, Margaret Reed Roberts, Jody Day, Jeanette Koncikowski, Julia Trehane, John Cronin and Catherine Fowler (another double guest episode), and Stephen Downes.

Plus, we end this episode with something very special - The Herman Song, sent to us by an avid Silent Why listener and supporter - John Cunningham.

If you'd like to see our guests and encourage them, pop over to our social media for the latest collage of their lovely faces and hit 'like'.

To listen to the full episodes go to: https://www.thesilentwhy.com/101losses. 

Transcript

Chris: 0:02

50 Down 51 to go!

Claire: 0:07

Here we are again. And these episodes were coming around pretty quickly. But the last time we did one of these was a year ago.

Chris: 0:14

what?!

Claire: 0:14

I know.

Chris: 0:15

That's crazy!

Claire: 0:16

Partly because we do episodes every other Tuesday now instead of every week, but also because I had August off to do some writing, and there's many other good episodes that we're putting in on blogs and let's chat episodes, so it kind of just pads it out, so it's been a much longer time than before. Anyway, the important thing is that we're back we've got more losses in the bag ready to go, and the next one won't be that far away.

Chris: 0:36

[laughs] What a boast!

Claire: 0:39

So welcome to The Silent Why, if you're new, we're are a childless, not by choice, couple hosting a podcast which is on a mission to find 101 different types of loss and to hear from those who have experienced them all. And I'm Claire.

Chris: 0:51

I'm Chris. And we're nearly halfway through our mission to explore 101 different types of permanent loss and every time we do 10 losses. We record an episode like this to reflect on the last 10 and play their Hermann's to see what those guests wanted us to learn from their experiences.

Claire: 1:07

And we've covered all kinds of loss so far, and there's so many more to do. And you can see a full list of those at www.thesilentwhy.com/101losses. But here's some examples of some of the losses that we've delved into. They include things like loss of family members, which might be Parents, Husband, grandparents, friends, siblings, loss of parents to dementia, loss of family,

Chris: 1:26

loss of marriage, loss of fertility, that was us

Claire: 1:30

of limbs or a front tooth, grieving a loss without a body

Chris: 1:33

loss to mental illness, loss of skin to Epidermolysis Bullosa or through young onset dementia or a stroke,

Claire: 1:40

loss of pregnancies, babies, young children or even adult children.

Chris: 1:44

Loss of worldly beauty through scars, loss of a species in the natural world, or through accidental death,

Claire: 1:49

loss of parenting through a young child with cancer or Angelman syndrome

Chris: 1:53

professions that work with loss like paediatric nursing, murder detectives, emergency medicine or funeral directing

Claire: 1:59

loss of veterans to suicide loss in a school shooting

Chris: 2:02

loss of professional accreditations, dreams, self identity, childhood, photos, careers,

Claire: 2:08

pets, loss through house fires

Chris: 2:09

lost through ADHD or eating disorders

Claire: 2:12

lost through disenfranchised grief, cumulative grief, or sexual grief

Chris: 2:15

loss of reality

Claire: 2:17

Loss of a queen

Chris: 2:18

lost through art. You did say you wondered if we managed to get one of our losses into every batch and we haven't! Nothing in this 10. Let's take a moment now then to meet our last batch of loss guests.

Julia: 2:31

Hello, my name is Julia and I'm here to talk about going from 40 years of living in anorexia to fully recovered

Jeanette: 2:39

Hi, I'm Jeanette Kansa kowski from Buffalo, New York and I'm here today to talk about the impact of cumulative grief.

Jody: 2:45

Hi, I'm Jodi de and I'm here to talk about the disenfranchised grief of childlessness.

Chris LB: 2:51

I'm Chris Lord Brown, and I'm Jonathan Hardy. Together we run Lord Brown and Harty funeral directors in north Wales. We are here today to talk about working in the field profession, working with grief and loss.

Margaret: 3:04

Hi, I'm Margaret Reese Roberts, and I'm here to talk about loss through late diagnosis of ADHD.

John: 3:12

Hi, I'm John. I'm an emergency physician, and I'm here to talk about the impact of the loss of a patient on me as a doctor.

Catherine: 3:19

Hi, I'm Catherine, and I'm here to share my story following the loss of my father to a misdiagnosed aortic dissection.

Lisa: 3:26

Hi, my name is Lisa Ruhland, and I'm here to talk about sudden loss without a body.

Stephen: 3:32

Hi, my name is Steven and I'm here today to speak about the loss of my left arm, my shoulder, my collarbone, three ribs and a proportion of my chest wall. Hi,

Sam: 3:42

I'm Samantha Langford, and I'm talking about the death of

Harry: 3:42

Hi, my name is Harry Kind. And when I was 16, I lost my brother through autoerotic asphyxiation . my home to a massive house fire along with most of my possessions

Chris: 4:06

A few more accents in there great to get some Welsh, Irish and English into this one.

Claire: 4:10

Yep, just missed out on some Scottish for the full UK package.

Chris: 4:13

Or did we?

Claire: 4:14

Well, yes, you might hear a bit of Scottish at the end of this episode is a very special Herman tribute that we were sent in from one of our avid listeners and supporters. So we've done another 10 losses. Looking back. Is there anything that jumps out at you personally, Chris, when you think thanks. So professional. Is there anything that jumps out when you look back over these 10 guests? Which one just sort of springs to mind first?

Chris: 4:39

Yeah, I think so. I'd probably say that the chat we had with Lisa called rueland. Last without a body was the name of that episode. There was so much in that was just sort of beautiful and dramatic and startling. She lost her husband in a mountain climbing tragedy. He was one of a group that were lost in another And, and there's just so much about that thing as someone that loves mountains that loves the great outdoors, you know, it's the sort of thing that films are made of documentaries that you see when such tragedies happen. And yeah, remarkable to consider for the first time for me perhaps what it must be like grieving the loss of someone where you can't do the normal stuff with a burial with a funeral, there isn't a body in a coffin that we might be used to seeing. It was really interesting to hear Lisa's experience of what that was like, what that is still like, and also some of the things some really unusual, not going to spoil or go and listen to the episode. But some of the really unusual thing she found herself doing to try and keep him alive to keep his memory alive. Keep him close, when she knew that his body physically was still on that mountain. Yeah,

Claire : 5:50

it was very powerful. I've heard people since talk about Mount Rainier, which is where he died. I heard someone recently talking about how beautiful it was. And it always makes me think about her. And also, when I hear about any mountain now being praised as like, it's amazing. It's beautiful. I think of the people who have lost people on that mountain, because she said, not only did that end up sort of being his grave, but she used the line that it's also his murderer. So she has a very complicated relationship with this mountain when she sees it. And that, that really stood out for me, it just opened up another area, I guess, of loss and grief that people are facing, we look at these beautiful things in nature. But actually, especially around the really big ones, like maybe even the Grand Canyon place. A lot of people have lost people around these things. So it's really made me aware of that sort of thing. But yeah, also, like you said, just the fact that she didn't get half of the tradition that she would have liked around death, which helps a lot of his process at funerals, and all those sorts of things. So it's a very interesting area to explore. I was very grateful for the conversation, because, you know, it's a difficult one to talk about. And I'd imagine it makes her grief very complicated when explaining it to other people, because it's another one of those things of do I tell people there was no body? Do people ask that straightaway? Did you get him back again, it's one of those things when you've got grief, and then you've got this area that's really difficult to talk about kind of locked into it. It just makes it even harder to have those natural conversations and people don't understand or they get too nosy or the press gets involved with these sorts of things. So yeah, it was really interesting after that opened up a lot of different areas. That

Chris: 7:14

was lost 41 Lisa called Ruhland. And certainly, you know, as you said, there are conversations you enjoy having that go into places that people don't normally go hearing about things that people don't normally hear about, which particularly I know leads into an episode that you remember well for the last 10 Yeah,

Claire : 7:29

so last 44 was with Samantha Langford and it was last through auto erotic asphyxiation. And this was something that she hadn't really spoken about publicly before. She'd written an article about it on LinkedIn, but hadn't really shared it because it's an area that incorporates two things people really don't like talking about sometimes and that's death and sex, and erotic asphyxiation, for those who aren't aware is known as breath control play. It's the intentional restriction of oxygen to the brain for sexual arousal. And auto erotic asphyxiation is when you do this on your own, and sometimes people accidentally die when they're doing this. And that's what happened to Samantha Langford, brother. So a very difficult thing to talk about for her for her parents. And she spoke about how for a while that, that she didn't really share what it was, she said it was an accident. But it just really opened up how difficult it can be to talk about these things and how you've got that, again, that extra complication of grieving something really shocking, you know, because he was so young, but at the same time having to navigate conversations and not wanting to say how he died, because you don't know how people are going to respond to that. So for her and her parents, that's been been really difficult. So I was really grateful to have that conversation on our podcast. So I think it will really help a lot of other people who have lost people in ways that maybe are hard to talk about.

Chris: 8:40

And it was a real privilege for us, I think to have that conversation with her because it was a big step on her journey, wasn't it of what she does now. And the, the, I guess the door that's open to help her to talk about it, to know how to talk about it with other people. It was lovely to be part of that journey and lovely for you to meet her in the flesh as well. So yeah, the episode to meet her in person. She

Claire: 9:02

came down the road locally, and she was having like a retreat time. And she said you nearby and I was like yeah, I'm 10 minutes away. So we met up and I met her and her mum. So that was really lovely, really nice time to catch up in person. Brilliant. Yeah. And I think all of these things with these sorts of deaths, they do make you think a little bit more about the funeral world. And another episode, I think that stands out quite a lot, partly because there's two guests, but also because of the subject was last 43 Exactly

Chris: 9:27

that. This was Chris law Brown and Jonathan Hardy funeral directors in north Wales. And interesting to sort of remember recording this episode with them, which we did online, but then to have spent, you know, three or four days with them since then that we did work experience as to like mature students. We spent how long was it just less than a week, isn't it? We're

Claire: 9:50

there for a couple of days. Two days with them. We went to Wales for a week.

Chris: 9:53

Yeah, so having spent that time with them and experienced their work and they gave us some brilliant insight into their jobs, their world, dealing with death dealing with unusual deaths, and the impact that has on them. It was fascinating. And it's, you know, it's led into so many conversations since I'm with individuals, you know, that just could not understand why we would want to go and spend time with the funeral directors. But you know, the amount of times now we we spot vans around you're like, that's clearly a funeral. You know, a smart looking van that's maybe on the way to a very sad or very tragic scene, perhaps on the way back from. So it was brilliant to hear to have that conversation with Chris and with Jonathan. And now again, just something that they were really pleased to do and have directed people to because it brought out such a human emotional side to individuals into an industry, I guess, that we don't, we don't tend to look upon as being human. We just see the hearses, we see the smart clothing, the top hats, let's say, funeral directors, and we just imagine that to be a bit morbid, we don't really see the human the emotion that the heart behind what they do. So yeah, really, really good and valuable to be able to get to know them and become friends with them. It's lovely. Yeah,

Claire: 11:11

very human episode, they were very generous in how much they opened up emotionally, even about, you know, suffering with things like PTSD and the impact of that some deaths have had on them and the sort of things they struggle with and find difficult. So yeah, I really recommend listening to that gives you a real insight into an industry that we all have to have contact with at some point, but perhaps don't really fully give all the credit to for the amount of stuff they have to do that a lot of us don't want to have to look at similarly

Chris: 11:36

in hospitals. So moved from a funeral directors into a hospital and again, opening up conversations and insights into what it's like from the other side of things. Lost 49. Tell us about this one. Yeah, so

Claire: 11:48

that was about last in an emergency room. And we spoke to Catherine Fowler and John Cronin, John is an emergency physician in the emergency room in Ireland. And it was about a joint case. Catherine's father came through his emergency department, suffering from an aortic dissection, but they didn't realise that's what it was. And sadly, Catherine's father died before Katherine could get there. And this story has brought Catherine and John together, and they've been doing all kinds, we're not like marriage wise. That'd be an amazing love story, wouldn't it? It's brought them together in the world of aortic dissection to help raise awareness and do research. And a lot of the work they've been doing, most of us wouldn't be aware of. But so many emergency rooms, especially over here, will have been affected by the research that Catherine has been doing and the training that they've been giving emergency departments to try and diagnose aortic dissection quicker and better, because it's not diagnosed very quickly. And a lot of people die because they don't get the treatment that they need in time. So that was an episode that really shows you the power of what can be done really, when somebody dies because of a certain situation. And then what happens when the family and the medical profession get together to say, we're going to try and make this better for other people. So that was the first time we'd had somebody to interview from both sides of a loss from the emergency side and hospital, but also from the family, talking to the daughter with Katherine. So yeah, really interesting kind of coming together. And the

Chris: 13:12

two of them, were really interested to hear each other's experience when they that John, from the medical side of things really valued here. And Catherine talking about what it was like as a family member coming into the hospital. And then likewise, Katherine really appreciated and engaged with John talking about what it was like, from the medical side of things. So the two of them, just hearing them respond and react to what each other was saying was was really interesting insight in that conversation.

Claire: 13:36

It was Yeah, and loss. 47 was another one we did, again, just the power of people going through an experience and then working hard to help other people who are going through it.

Chris: 13:46

Yes, Jeanette konser Kaski lovely chat with her about something that I had not really considered before that is now termed cumulative grief, which I sort of understand that to be like a snowball effect, you know, something has gone wrong. And then very soon afterwards, something else has gone wrong, maybe something else has gone wrong, and it's these things pile up. And there was a question that I remember you asking Jeannette about how do you deal with these griefs, these losses? How do you process it when one keeps happening after another? You know, do you take one at a time or deal with them and just this mountain of of grief? And it was really good to hear her answer about you know, it's both. It's quite complicated, but yeah, really interesting to get her experiences as well because she has gone through this snowball effect of grief.

Claire: 14:28

Yeah, she's a proper advocate for what therapy can do to help you work through each and she had been through five major losses in four years. She lost a pregnancy in her second term. Her mother was then diagnosed with cancer and died later that year. Then she lost her best friend very suddenly of a heart attack at the age of 37. And then she lost her grandma and then her husband of 21 years died through epilepsy, which left her widowed at the age of 36 and raising her children on her own. So she's been an amazing person for going through grief with children. He's being very intentional about the therapy, they all had to get through this. And then also moving on now to just being really passionate about helping other widows and widowers being able to parent young children, which has been amazing. And she also had that aspect, you know, in there that she talked about that she was separated from her husband when he died. So that really complicated things as well, because they were looking to get back together, they were heading towards reconciling and, and then it all got, you know, complicated by his death. And then she had to explain that to people because some people might think, Well, you were separated anyway. So yeah, just all areas of grief that again, just add that complication when you're talking to people about it, but because she knows all of this, she has gone on to help other people that are going through it. And I love that she's sort of doing that kind of work, if she

Chris: 15:43

had such a lovely voice to listen to. She's from Buffalo, New York, and just that the accent, she spoke like she had felt and experienced and considered everything that she was saying that she just learnt so much and come such a long way. That it was like yeah, just so lovely. listening back to the episode and hearing her hearing her speak. That was great. So cumulative grief. And then another source of grief in another of the episodes in the last 10 disenfranchised grief interesting that these sort of become themes or topics, you know, grief is grief. But yeah, there are different ways that people grief

Claire: 16:17

ways that people grief. I like that. I'm going to use that. Yes, this was a Do you agree? Have you grieve? Yeah. So this was disenfranchised grief with Jody day in Lost 46. And disenfranchised grief is something you're probably going to hear a lot more of at the moment. It's been around for a long time. Apparently, it was first defined by Professor Kenneth Docker in the late 80s. But it's a form of grief, which, which is basically not socially very acceptable. So you don't really feel like you're allowed to talk about it. You're not allowed to experience it or get support for it. So it's, it's quite difficult. And one of the things that fell into that, for her was childlessness. So Jodie de is a strong advocate and speaker for childless women and helping them to just navigate that kind of life, I guess, really. So it was really good to have her on. There was so many quotes and snippets from her episode, I had people messaging me saying, I have to listen to it again. I need to write down all this stuff. Yeah, she's really she's done amazingly, at honing her subject. And just really speaking into it. We asked her what would you like to speak about because you speak about childlessness everywhere? Is this something different you'd like to talk about? And she said, I'd like to talk about disenfranchised grief because of the childlessness. But also, she said that the childlessness was harder to go through than her divorce. So she looked at all the different types of grief she'd been through and how they felt.

Chris: 17:33

So that was last 46. And definitely one to recommend to friends, family members, colleagues, if you know that they have sort of part of their story features childlessness or infertility. That's a really good episode to share with them. Jody days in one of those speakers, she's got platform she's used to it. She's obviously really honed her craft and hand what she says really well. So yeah, loads of loads of good nuggets of of helpful information in that one. And then on to two episodes that we featured in the last 10, which, you know, areas that you wouldn't naturally associate with loss, but one of them in particular, very, sort of, almost like it's a trending talking point, you hear the letters, ADHD quite a lot now, maybe in your community where you live. And so it was really interesting to hear from Margaret read Roberts, about how ADHD has affected and impacted her life and losses. As a result of that. Yeah,

Claire: 18:27

she had just lost 45, she had a late diagnosis of ADHD. So she was talking about it from the point of view of having a life with a brain that was very chaotic, a lot going on, and not really understanding it and just feeling like there was something wrong with her. And then she had this late diagnosis of ADHD and it opened up a whole world for her of understanding herself better and why she functioned as she did. But at the same time, it came with a loss because she looked back and saw all the last time when she didn't understand herself. She didn't know who she was or what she was doing. And she felt like she was grieving that because had she known earlier, she could have leaned into her potential a bit more understood that her brain worked a bit differently found the coping strategies that she now uses. So it's very interesting to look at loss and grief in relation to a subject that yeah, you wouldn't normally associate that with. It's really

Chris: 19:16

interesting, isn't it? How often when we talk to somebody about their loss, you know, almost emphasise their losses in the singular but actually, there's so often multiple ripples, there's things there's multiple losses associated with with a single incident or a single theme or topic. But yeah, this was a again, another really interesting subject, particularly for someone like myself where I don't know much about ADHD. So hearing her as an adult, looking back and reflecting on so much of the struggle and the battle that she had with all sorts of things at work and at home and then how now realising that actually is a bit of a superpower. That rather than looking negatively on it, it's something that she's learning to look very positively about what the ADHD diagnosis enables her to do, and how she has this superpower to be able to live from this point on. Yeah,

Claire: 20:09

I did another episode of this chapter with Edie Halliwell, who's very well known in the ADHD world. And he was saying exactly that. It helps you unlock the superpowers as well. So it's worth it's worth knowing and having this diagnosis, because yes, it allows you to deal with the stuff that you feel like you're not doing very well. But equally, it allows you to see other aspects of your character and how your brain works as things that other people can't do. And that can unlock a lot of potential. So yeah, very interesting. And

Chris: 20:33

moving on to the second of the two episodes. Another unusual condition to talk about anorexia. This was last number 48 loss through anorexia and orthorexia. And this was with Julia to Hain orthorexia is,

Claire: 20:47

it's an unhealthy obsession with eating sort of pure food. So you go to the nth degree of eating super healthy, but to the point is damaging your body a bit like anorexia does when you restrict food. And I

Chris: 20:57

think for me, the biggest you know, hands down the biggest thing and this was Julia talking about having had this for 40 years of her life that she had lived with anorexia, and orthorexia, and just how much impact that has on your body, your spirit, your mind for 40 years. I remember one of the things that she said that she, you're talking about restricting things she had restricted her emotions, that she didn't shed a tear for 40 years. And then you know, asking her what it was like to shed them to cry for the first time, once she had recovered or was in recovery from this, just hearing her talk about what a mess it was. But peeling back all those layers in is remarkable, particularly when you know how quickly to throw out that cliche and at times a healer that some people, you know, would love that to be the case. But to be in this for 40 years is remarkable. Yeah.

Claire: 21:50

And I think when people look at eating disorders, if you mentioned loss, you probably think of loss of weight. But you don't think of all the other losses in sort of griefs along the way. And she was talking about how she would grieve for the woman that she used to be because she used to have a body that made her feel special, you know, when you lose a lot of weight, even if it's through an eating disorder, people compliment you on it, you look good. How did you lose that weight? How are you so small women have they reinforced that kind of body, so you lose out on that. And then she was talking about a sort of a fantasy world that she built herself to survive in, she will put masks on when her family walked in, to hide what she was doing. She was lying about her behaviour. But then she was fainting at the gym, and all these physical things were kicking in. And it was a real journey towards having to be very honest with herself and also do a lot of hard work. I think what struck me was that she said that, to get back to sort of being able to digest food. Normally, it took a year of her body needing to learn how to do that. And that is a long road to travel and daily, you're suffering with symptoms to get back to normal. But the amazing thing about that episode was that she said at the end, I have complete food freedom. I don't struggle with any eating disorder thoughts anymore. I'm fully recovered as far as I'm concerned. And that was just, I mean, what a beacon of hope, because I wouldn't have known is it possible to fully get away from things like that. And again, another person who's very passionate about it, and now helps other people going through eating disorders. So if you know anybody or you struggle with an eating disorder yourself, I'd fully recommend following her on social media, or getting in touch if you need some help, because she's got a lovely platform helping people get to that food freedom place.

Chris: 23:23

She challenged me in my understanding of self love as well. Yeah, so it was a lot about the identity and clearly, you know, 40 years of anorexia and orthorexia as a coping mechanism for you know, a broken something something's not quite right. There's there's baggage from childhood upbringing you're having to deal with. And this is your way of coping with that. And she had to do a lot of work on herself and how she viewed herself. And I sometimes don't know where that line is in self, you know, arrogance, and self care, self love. Because sometimes, you know, people that love themselves too much, there's not a good thing. But you need to love yourself, don't you love love your neighbour as you love yourself? And I found that quite challenging to know. Well, actually, now, I don't know I can love my neighbour without loving myself. Can you? Yeah,

Claire: 24:09

and it was exactly what you said she'd gone on that journey herself. Almost looking at it as is arrogant to love myself in that way to do self care. And then recognising how powerful it actually was for her. And I think some of us Yeah, really struggle with that. It's like, Oh, is that a bit selfish? But then you realise that in not doing it, you're doing so much damage to yourself. So yeah, great episode for advocating for self care,

Chris: 24:31

to more of the last 10 to tell you about the latest

Claire: 24:35

one, which was last 50 which felt like a good number because it feels like we're dangerously close to halfway which is brilliant. That was loss of a left arm and shoulder with Stephen Downes. And that was a great episode. Lovely guy to chat to. And yeah, we just recently gone out. So when

Chris: 24:52

I think of Steven, I just think of buttering bagels. How'd you butcher a bagel with what I'm talking about? chizzy around the plate and learning to Do so there's some real nice little practical examples in that of real life with one arm, you lose an arm, a dominant arm, how do you relearn what to do? How to do things you did before like surfing, mad, passionate surfer lives in Cornwall, where, if you're in the UK, then surfing is the place, you know, calm was the place to be for surfing. And, yeah, in order to get rid of cancer in his body, the surgeons, the doctors had to take off his left arm and shoulder in order to get in and remove the cancer. So really, really nice chat with Steven, what a great character

Claire: 25:34

fresh as well, that only happened 22. Yeah,

Chris: 25:38

so fresh, but still, you know this soon into his journey, able to see how important hope is, you know, hopes everything. He said that there was so much that he hoped for before the surgery. And then since then, and you know, he wouldn't he wouldn't go back said if there was a magic button to press to go back to having me know the old life with two arms, there's

Claire: 25:57

a tiny bit of doubt that I don't think I can unpack. But yeah, it was a great episode for showing you all the different types of loss. Again, like you said, it's not just one loss, you don't just lose an arm and have to re cope with how to do things with one arm. It was an episode of What losses came along with that my loss of my identity, the loss of the personal used to be the loss of things I used to do easily that I loved. You know how easy things were and how they're not now. And so I think it was just a great conversation for chatting through all of that. But yeah, like you said, also sharing the practical side of having to do life with one arm. And interestingly, something I don't think he said on the podcast. But he said to me, he lost his dominant arm, which was his left arm through tap to learn to write with his right arm, which he didn't normally do before. But his handwriting is now actually better with the right arm than it was with the left.

Chris: 26:45

Brilliant. And he's clearly Well, I think, at least clearly, he has been surprised by the impact that he's now having on others and the platform that he's found himself on sharing his experience and what he's gone through and going through and relearning. Helping others in that whether it's school children or parents that he meets at the school gates reminds me of a talk that we heard an American preacher called Louie Giglio, who used this sort of thing as a CS Lewis thing about a megaphone megaphone of Hope was Louie did Leo's chat, but almost like when you suffer, when you go through a tragedy and ordeal, you're handed a megaphone of which you suddenly get this opportunity to share a message, something through your suffering through your pain, that travels a lot further than if you hadn't had that. And I think with Stephen, he's come through this experience and his family. He's got this megaphone now to share his learnings and the hope that he's found in discovering this new identity. Someone that's been a relearning to serve, you can't serve properly yet, and the importance that he's able to share and the power of yet he quoted, and in fact, we use the quote at the end of the episode didn't worry about the power of yet. Not yet. I can't yet, but I will. Yeah.

Claire: 28:04

And I think it's really also a really interesting one for a very obvious loss that when you look at somebody who had two arms, and now they've got one arm, we want to know, what do people do with that? And the answer is, people don't really ask him about it. And he was quite open with the fact I like, I'd like people to ask, why would you not ask, you know, I used to have two arms. Now I have one, why would you not ask what happened? They're so interesting. And you know, I'd take on that. And should we offer people like that help if you see them in the supermarket and stuff, and he said, he likes being offered, but he probably won't accept it and why. And so it was it was a really interesting insight into some of these things that some of us might wonder about. Do we offer Do we not so yeah, really good conversation there. And then we also had lost 42, which was loss of possessions in a house fire with hairy kind, which was really interesting one to look at from a different completely different kind of loss really?

Chris: 28:52

Well, we'd experienced in our own little way, compared to this. I think in the previous batch of 10 episodes, loss of photos, we call it after we broke a harddrive. Harry,

Claire: 29:03

you say we even that was me that dropped. We share these things.

Chris: 29:07

So Harry's family he was 16 years old at the time, major house fire that destroyed many most of the family's possessions. Certainly, it was installed in the loft of the house. And yeah, having to come to terms with recognising over the years, I think he's come out all the better for realising actually. How important is stuff. There was some sentimental stuff that was lost, you know, pictures, there aren't any pictures surviving I think of him and his brother growing up. But he recognises that so much of what was lost in that he wouldn't want to get back and so he's, you know, he's he's kind of a different person. And again, it's come back to what you think about cumulative grief, that shortly after the family was rebuilding their lives literally rebuilding their home. After this fire, he got cancer quite a young age. He'd say it was like a one out of five Chile's cancer, so it was a mild cancer but still cumulative grief there of the fun like, here we go again. And I remember him using an example of a video game, that when you know when kids play video games, you can start that game, you know, you want to play on easy mode, medium mode, hard mode. And for that spell for a good few years, it felt like his family had chosen the hard mode for life, and what that felt like, and he was so grateful for his parents for how that they'd parented the family, how they'd led the boys and supported them through those. Those tragedies. Yeah,

Claire: 30:29

I think looking back as an adult now, especially, he was sort of more appreciative of how they dealt with it and had kept things very calm by the sounds a bit very sensible about the whole thing. And that seemed to have had a really sort of a good effect on him. He said, it was sort of I remember him saying it's a double edged sword, in that he doesn't cling to stuff too much now. So if I don't get photos or something, I don't keep photos or something. It's not the end of the world. So I know that you can get over it. But at the same time, he backs everything up on the cloud. So he's got, he's got a bit of both, he wants to not lose stuff, but at the same time, he knows he has a different value on possessions. So you know, that's an amazing thing to learn

Chris: 31:02

the Scrabble, isn't it just, you know, there are still people that think about grief and loss being about one or two things. And just in these 10 episodes, look how much ground we've covered in 10 episodes, and this is 10 to 15, we still got 51 to go. Yeah, it's incredible the variety of experience where people recognise and feel that their stuff, they have to grieve things that they've lost that they have to grieve and love the variety and diversity of experience that we've covered. Yeah,

Claire : 31:28

and I spoke to somebody just talking about the podcast that wasn't someone I knew, knew at all really just met for the first time. And mid 40s, maybe we're kids and he came out with the line, I haven't had any grief, haven't experienced grief, just in passing. So it's not really something hidden, hidden, necessarily be interested in as a subject cuz he hasn't experienced it. And I just that really struck me because it brings up so many thoughts. But partly, I want to say, I don't believe you. Because I don't know that anyone gets to that age. Without it. I think it's more likely they haven't recognised it as grief stuffs happened to them. But my guess would be that, like a lot of people, this person's definition of grief is death. So a lot of people can say, you know, I haven't really been through it, I haven't lost my parents yet. I haven't lost any children. I haven't lost my grandparents, or they were they weren't around, you know, before I was born. So they they genuinely haven't faced any death in the family, or been 20 funerals, maybe. And that's their definition of grief. And that's it, which is fascinating, but just shows you how many people out there, I think, a steal. And they don't necessarily see things as loss of a job, or loss of an item, or loss of an identity or shift and all these kinds of things. They don't see them as losses, or necessarily things that need grieving, which

Chris: 32:38

are, as you said, just to be recognised how important it is to recognise something, you know, maybe you're feeling in this particular way, maybe this season is this particular sort of bleak, because you're grieving, there's something to recognise there. And also, really importantly, what you did say to me, when you got home, having that conversation, there's that element of what you may not have, but you will Yeah, it's not if it's when and so much that we are heart for this podcast, we want to use this in order to help others prepare for to get ready for because you know, you will, unfortunately, experience grief in your lifetime.

Claire: 33:12

Yeah, and also the importance of recognising grief in other people's lives, even if they don't see it. So it could be really key if somebody like that goes through the loss of a job, or the loss of something smaller or something to do with their identity shift or relationship breaks down. Sometimes if you're in conversation with them to be able to say to them, that must be really hard. Like that's a that's a big loss there. And, you know, sometimes you need to sit down and grieve loss, they might that might not have even crossed their mind that they have the entitlement almost to sit and feel sad about this thing and recognise, I've lost some other things as well. I've just lost a job, I've lost identity, I've lost a career, whatever it is. So I think for people like us that are all listening and part of this conversation about grief, don't be afraid to identify in other people's lives to allow them even if they shrug it off like oh, no, that's fine. It doesn't mean they won't go away and think about it. And you might have opened a door for them that allows them to process that in a way they wouldn't otherwise. So always key thing to do that I'm always doing that to people all the time. That's a loss there, as they say, all changes loss. So it's all around us.

Chris: 34:12

And then what we love to use the podcast for is to draw out of those that have experienced whether in recent or further back history, these losses to them bring the good out of it, what have you learned through it? What have you developed that you can now share with others because of your experience? And we end all of our episodes by asking all of our guests the same last question. What's your Herman?

Claire: 34:35

Yeah, and you can hear a short episode explaining that if that's a completely new concept to you, or you can go to the www.silentwhy.com/herman. But in short, it's basically what would you share with others something you've learned through your loss and you want to help others with and since we last talked about this, in one of these types of episodes, humans have actually gone on to become actual physical little beings that can comfort people in their grief, not just words, but there'll be more on that later on.

Chris: 34:57

And every time we do an episode looking back at the last 10 losses, As we gather these together to share with you, not the physical beings, although it feels like I'm living among lots of little crocheted beings. But to end these episodes, his reflections on the final 10, we bring the hermit answers together. It's like a cheat sheet, if you will, and something that we've grown affectionately to call the

Chris & Claire: 35:20

Hermontage

Chris: 35:23

So here are the last 10 Hermans from our guests.

Chris LB: 35:29

My Herman would be don't expect the grief journey to be linear. It's all over the place. It's a child's scribbled of backwards and forwards, up and down.

Julia: 35:40

It's aai million percent self love, it changes the world. If everyone could learn to love themselves, then that love just spills out. And the ripple effect to everybody else is incredible.

Sam: 35:52

You're stronger than you think we need to embrace. bereavement, accept it as it is, I'm not saying that that's going to be easy. But I think once we embrace all of those emotions, all of those feelings, and we accept the fact that our grief is part of who we are. Now, I think once we accept that, that's how we then become stronger.

Jonathen: 36:12

Mine's a saying, I say it to myself an awful lot. And that is that 'you don't need to attend every argument that you're invited to', especially when you're bereaved, or especially when you're suffering a loss. Just let those things that you would usually argue about, or disagree with people about slightly slight over you, you've got enough on your plate, it's easy to lose your temper to snap to say the wrong thing when you are bereaved. It's made a huge difference in my life. So that's my Herman.

Jeanette: 36:44

It's my favourite two phrases: purpose and community. That when you find your purpose, you can pay it forward, in that it's best done not alone, but in community that those are the ways we heal.

Margaret: 36:56

My Herman is that we were created to be unique. We are each and unfinished masterpiece, but a masterpiece nonetheless, we can all hang in the great art gallery of the world alongside each other.

John: 37:14

I think my Herman the game changer on this has been working and engaging with family members and loved ones of patients. Because as medics, we tend to meet as medics a big change for me has been not having a fear of working with patients, particularly if things haven't gone to plan. Or sometimes we worry about what people will think of us or mistakes we've made or, or lack of knowledge or understanding that we might have but there is just no way that we would have made the progress on aortic dissection hadn't been just asked as a bunch of emergency physicians or as a bunch of doctors.

Catherine: 37:54

There's been so many Hermans, and I hope that there's going to be many more. But for me, really, my Herman is heightened awareness that you can get a handle on your grief, you can turn it into something quite powerful. If you're willing to take yourself there and keep your grief allies, they're getting my journey, I couldn't see myself having the levels of empathy that I've had with members from the medical community. And that's quite a powerful thing.

Harry: 38:24

My Herman would be, there's not a huge amount that I should ever really invest too much in as a single item or as any kind of item. Because ultimately, everything's replaceable, and the important things without being a cliche, our family and your health, those are the things that are a lot more enjoyable, and you won't feel guilty about spending time with them.

Lisa: 38:49

It's not mine, I heard it, I'm going to pass it along. Someone describing grief, as the hole you live your life around. And I've always loved that image, because it's not saying you need to fill it in. It's not saying you need to cover it up, saying you can exist with the hole. But you will build a beautiful garden of beautiful life around the hall, give yourself permission to carry the loss, but also to build something very meaningful and beautiful around it.

Stephen: 39:24

My Herman is the ability to endure and when I read your descriptions of what Herman is, it's not something that can be bought. It's not something you can get from a shot. It's something that you acquire through loss through pain through grief, through heartache, and I think what I've learned is that I can endure quite a lot. You know, I didn't think that I would be able to cope with the amputation of my arm, but our house, we all probably are able to endure a lot of hardship to to get to the enjoyment of life.

Jody: 39:53

My Herman's around grief. Grief is the engine of change and transformation. It's some thing we need to learn about and become skilled with it will visit all of us. It's not to be afraid of grief is the engine of creativity and transformation. That's my Herman.

Claire: 40:14

There we have it, the Hermontage. As always, thank you so much for listening to The Silent Why we are so grateful that people choose to join us and be with us on this journey, especially you. And we're going to continue on our journey to find 101 losses. So keep with us.

Chris: 40:31

If you'd like to find out more about us, Claire and myself, or read or listen to our story about childlessness, please visit the website www.thesilentwhy.com And listen to episode three as well loss of fertility. To see the full 101 loss list with links to each episode, you can visit the

website: 40:48

www.thesilentwhy.com/101losses. And you can also see a full list of our let's chat episodes on the website and Claire's blog posts.

Claire: 40:55

And if you want to help me reaching out to grieving people, so they feel less alone when going through loss, you can

Chris: 40:58

Thank you for listening to us talk. It's lovely. We've support the show in a couple of ways financially to help me continue the podcast at www.buymeacoffee.com/thesilentwhy reached over 116 countries and territories with the podcast so there's a link in the show notes. Or there's another way to support my work. And that's to buy a Herman Herman's our handmade crocheted companions for grieving people going through a hard time made by me so who do you know right now that struggling? Maybe they're grieving going through chemo radiotherapy, hospital treatments, maybe they lost their job of pet or relationship has ended. Whatever the situation when flowers don't last long enough chocolates don't seem the right gift. Herman is the solution, I carefully make each one so that you can send him to somebody who needs him. And I can add a personalised note in which I handwrite you tell me what to put, and you can have them sent directly to the person you're thinking of, or you can have it sent to you to give to them. Or you might just feel that you need to Herman yourself, whatever the situation buying a home and supports my work and enables the podcast to continue while also blessing others with the message that whatever they're going through, they're not alone. far, which, frankly, is amazing. And don't forget, we provide AI transcripts for every episodes if you want someone to hear an episode, but it's not in their language. Or if it's only something to read. You can find a link to the transcripts at the bottom of the podcast show notes. We're not actually going to finish this episode with a quote like we normally do, we're gonna finish with a song but don't worry it's not us singing.

Claire: 42:36

No! One of our very faithful and supportive listeners who's also an amazing gardener, by the way, ordered his Herman in January and then wrote a poem about why he actually bought two Hermans and he sent it to me which was a lovely surprise, but then the very clever man also turned it into a song. So we asked for his permission to share it with you on the podcast and he said yes.

Chris: 42:54

So, here it is by the one and only very talented very Scottish John Cunningham mixed written and produced in his own home it's The Herman Song.

John Cunningham: 43:39

The Herman, it appeals to me and it seems full of hope, Flowers fade and words will stop, A thing that’s made by hand can cope, And stays with those who need it most. I have no need of one just now, So he would be alone, But then I thought there could be a time, When someone in my life will phone, And where would I be then? I thought for days, a lonely boy, Just sitting out the race, But someone in the future that, Will light up when they see his face, Lonely little Herman don’t be blue, Someone somewhere is waiting just for you…. Problem solved I reason cause, There never was a season when, The pain will not be there to share, And felt by those around us, Lonely Herman in my mind, A single sole a single shoe, But then, eureka, solve the case, Why don’t I ask for two! So when he’s gone I’ll have you to talk to.