Loss 44/101: Loss through autoerotic asphyxiation: Samantha Langford

#072. How much harder is it to mourn the loss of a loved one when sex is involved? We're all for honest and open conversations, but how do you have them when multiple taboo subjects are part of the same story?

This is The Silent Why, a podcast on a mission to open up conversations around grief and see if hope can be found in 101 different types of permanent loss.

Loss #44 of 101 - Loss through Autoerotic Asphyxiation

Please note this episode discusses some very adult themes around sex and death, so please use discretion where and when listening.

Meet Samantha Langford from Lincolnshire, England, who’s speaking publicly for the first time about her 21-year-old brother who tragically died in 1997 when practising autoerotic asphyxiation.
 
‘Erotic asphyxiation’, also known as ‘breath control play’, is the intentional restriction of oxygen to the brain for the purposes of sexual arousal. This can be done through strangulation, suffocation, or neck or chest compression. The term 'autoerotic asphyxiation' is used when the act is done by a person to themselves, rather than in a couple. It’s a very dangerous practice that can lead to accidental death, which is sadly what happened with Sam’s brother.

As with many accidental deaths in the home, the coroner recorded a verdict of ‘Death by Misadventure’. An accident or mistake. But one that left his family with two difficult subjects to deal with: sex and death.

In this episode Sam opens up about something that’s taken her many years to know how to speak about, she talks about what it’s been like sharing on a subject that’s so sensitive, the impact on her when the topic is just a joke to others, the dangers of such practices, the loneliness of not knowing anyone else that's been through the same grief and what good has come from it in her own development as a person.

For more about Sam visit her LinkedIn profile: www.linkedin.com/in/samanthabloomfield

To read the LinkedIn article Sam wrote about her brother in June 2022 visit: www.linkedin.com/pulse/death-sex-double-taboo-samantha-langford-msc/    

Transcript

Sam: 0:02

Hi, I'm Samantha Langford and I'm talking about the death of my brother through autoerotic asphyxiation.

Claire : 0:10

Welcome to The Silent Why a podcast on a mission to explore if hope can exist in 101 different types of loss and to hear from those who have experienced them. I'm Claire.

Chris: 0:18

And I'm Chris. Hello. And we just want to give you a heads up that this episode deals with some very adult themes around death and also sex, so please use discretion on where and when you're listening.

Claire : 0:29

For Loss 44 of 101 we're talking to Samantha Langford from Lincolnshire in the UK. When I first met Sam, we were talking about recording a conversation about handling grief in the workplace (which is coming up soon), she happened to mention, however, that her brother had died. And it was such a unique but important subject to raise awareness of we decided to do an episode about that too, which led to this conversation.

Chris: 0:49

For 25 years, Sam has remained pretty tight lipped on the subject, and you'll hear why it's only recently she's begun sharing more about her experience. And this is the first time she's spoken publicly about how he died through auto erotic asphyxiation.

Sam: 1:05

I remember them coming into my bedroom to wake me up to tell me that my brother had died, and my entire world just imploded. I'd seem to remember actually, they had to get the GP out to me to try and calm me down. And since then, everything's changed.

Claire : 1:19

Erotic asphyxiation, also known as 'breath control play' is the intentional restriction of oxygen to the brain for the purposes of sexual arousal. This can be done through strangulation, suffocation, neck or chest compression, or the inhalation of volatile chemicals. The term auto erotic asphyxiation is used when the act is done by a person to themselves rather than in a couple.

Chris: 1:40

It's a really dangerous practice that can lead to accidental death, which is sadly what happened with Sam's brother in 1997, when he was just 21 years old.

Claire : 1:49

As with many accidental deaths in the home, the coroner's verdict was death by misadventure, an accident or mistake, but one that left his family with two very difficult subjects to deal with - sex and death.

Sam: 2:00

For the first couple of weeks, I think I didn't, I didn't even ask how he died. My parents didn't tell me. But then our local newspaper decided it was front page news.

Chris: 2:09

Grieving is hard enough when you lose someone so young, but when you throw in another taboo, such as sex, you get a bereavement that's incredibly hard to open up about with others.

Sam: 2:18

I had one person really quite adamantly tell me that it was suicide, and I was fooling myself. And within a few months, I got to the point, I thought,'You know what, I'm just not going to talk about this'. So for the rest of my time at university, I just said it was an accident. And that is how I lived my life for a very, very long time.

Chris: 2:35

The death of Sam's brother had a huge impact on the direction of her life, including her choice of career, which you'll hear her talk about.

Claire : 2:42

And it's important to remember when dealing with subjects like this, however uncomfortable it might make you feel at times, at the heart of this is still a family trying to navigate the death of a young son. And as with many grief have explored over the years, Sam's also noticed the good that has grown from it.

Sam: 2:56

I think, now that I've got to this point where I'm able to talk about my brother much more freely and to articulate my own emotions. I think I'm just much more aware of who I am now.

Chris: 3:08

We're so pleased that Sam felt able to have this conversation with us to help us understand the complexities of such a loss. Over to her to introduce herself.

Sam: 3:19

So I am Samantha Langford, but everyone calls me Sam. I recently started my own business and I'm based in Lincolnshire in the UK. At the moment, life is quite hectic, having just started my own business and, but that's come off the back of being made redundant just before Christmas. So it's necessary. It's exciting, but it's also exhausting. So I'm away a lot at the moment. It's quite nice to actually be sat at home to having this conversation rather than being out and about on the road at the moment.

Claire : 3:48

And I can see that you also have an appreciation for ferns like I do behind you.

Sam: 3:52

Yes, I do love a fern. I do love a bit of greenery, ferns seems to be the only plant that I don't manage to kill. So there are a lot of ferns about, ferns and spider plants. Everything else seems to die on me.

Claire : 4:06

Yes, I have so many of those, but I love a fern, got big fern in the lounge, one of my favourites.

Chris: 4:09

What as well as the fern, the picture over your right shoulder as well, I think is the New York skyline is sort of a dusky picture, we've got exactly the same picture as well.

Sam: 4:17

Oh, that's Chicago.

Chris: 4:19

We've not got the exact same picture at all we've got, we've got one like it.

Sam: 4:23

It's from New York.

Chris: 4:24

Right?

Sam: 4:24

Yeah.

Chris: 4:24

Fine.

Claire : 4:25

So yes, you're here today to talk to us about something to do with your family and your brother. So why don't you tell us a little bit about where you grew up and what family life looked like for you.

Sam: 4:33

So my dad was in the military. So I am an official army brat. So I spent a lot of my childhood living in one country or another and moving around. I have two brothers, and they're both older than me. So for a large proportion of that time, they were at secondary school in the UK, and I was with my parents in Germany. So I was sort of separated from my family in a way. My mum and I spent a lot of our time by ourselves. My dad was away with me quite a lot. And my obviously my brothers were in the UK. But, you know, when we did get together, we had some great, amazing summer holidays, we get to travel to various places around the world. I think that's where I got the travel bug. I do love travelling. And I think that's down to sort of that the army upbringing. So up until I was, I think we came back to live in the UK permanently when I was about 13, so just as I was sort of starting my sort of secondary school life, really, that's when my dad retired. And we were able to sort of put down roots in the UK and live permanently in the UK. And that's how sort of everything was progressing really, up until I got to 16.

Chris: 5:41

Everything changed at 16. And certainly part of families concerned. So yeah, what was the conversation that you had when everything changed?

Sam: 5:48

Yeah, so I had not long since started my A levels, and I've gone to a six form college. So it was September. So literally only a few weeks into that my oldest brother, he was actually working in Oxford at the time he was living away. But he'd not really been doing that job particularly long, probably only sort of a few months just before the summer. And we had police officers knock on the door, my father had to answer the door to police officers to inform him that my brother had passed away. So that was what my parents told me, I remember them coming into my bedroom to wake me up to tell me that my brother had died. And my entire world just imploded, I'd seem to remember actually, they had to get the GP out to me to try and calm me down. And since then, everything's changed every every part of me and my entire life, my, the trajectory I'd planned for my life, obviously, I was doing my A levels, I'd got a plan in mind. It's like your entire world just shifts on its axis. And I think at 16, quite an important part of your life as well to have something so monumental occur. And I think the manner of his death as well also made it really difficult.

Chris: 7:01

What was the dynamic like between you and your brother, that meant that you were absolutely broken by it?

Sam: 7:07

So my brother was obviously, he was the firstborn of the children, who is my oldest brother. So much fun as a person, you know, I loved spending time with him. And I think my mom's always told me that when I was born, he used to rush home from school to come and see me when I was a baby. I ever had a problem with homework he was the person I'd go to I was thought he was really intelligent. And you know, it's not to say that I don't have a really good relationship with my other brother, because I really, really do. But they're different personalities, very, very different personalities, and probably closer to Stephen, my other brother as a result, but obviously, his relationship with my other brother was completely different to mine, he lost someone different to who I lost.

Claire : 7:48

Do you have a favourite memory that you have with him that you sort of go to when you think about him?

Sam: 7:51

Yeah, very much he had, he drove an old Mini, you know, the original Minis with the choke button. And there's a particular smell that comes with that as well. So that's a real strong memory for me as being in his mini. And he actually came home from Oxford. When I got my GCSE results, he came home to celebrate with me, and I really remembered that, but he was really he was so proud of me. And it was just just so lovely. I think that's probably the one of the last times I saw him. So I think that's why it's probably such a vivid memory. For the first couple of weeks. I think I didn't, I didn't even ask how he died. My parents didn't tell me. But then our local newspaper decided it was front page news.

Claire : 8:32

What did they say?

Sam: 8:33

I've still not seen the newspaper article 25 years on, I've still not read that. But because it was in the newspaper my parents obviously knew that they had to sit down and explain to me what had gone on as to why then the local newspaper found my brother's death, who was living in a different county at the time, why they suddenly decided that this was sort of a new newsworthy story. So they had to explain it to me. And I've recently found talking to my mum that, you know, there were a lot of discussions around within the family and my dad was really finding it difficult to explain to my mum how my brother had died as well. So it wasn't just me, and I think there'll be other family members that found it quite difficult to understand what had happened and how it had happened. But let's just dive into it. So the newspapers decided it was noteworthy because my brother died by autoerotic asphyxiation, which, though there are many different ways that people practice this and it isn't always autoerotic it sometimes with a partner, it's called 'breath play'. And it's essentially controlling or restricting the amount of airflow to the brain to heighten orgasm during sex. So, a lot of stigma and taboo around that. So you can understand how my parents trying to tell a 16 year old, and I freely admit I was a very naive 16 year old you know, I didn't have a boyfriend at the time, to try and sit down and explain to me how have older brother died, just how difficult that must have been for my parents and equally across across the family, how to have that conversation with other family members as well. And to understand the nuances behind that, to where that came from and how how it came to happen, really.

Claire : 10:16

That must be really hard. And you say a naive 16 year old but I would imagine a lot of people listening to this still wouldn't know what that was, wouldn't be aware that it was actually something that happens or that people die from. So how common is it?

Sam: 10:29

Yeah, this is something I've been looking into quite a lot recently, because it feels to me like 25 years old, and we're still not in a place culturally here in the UK, where we talk about these things. I've got friends that are within the kink community where it is more well spoken about. But why does it need to be separate community? You know, why do you have to join a separate community to be able to talk freely about these things. Because at the end of the day, it's sex it's not something that you know, only a few people do it, this is quite a normal practice, you know, we need it, we need it to keep the human race going. Yet here in the UK, we seem so reluctant to talk about it. So I know personally, I have quite a few couples that practice together. And you know, there's quite a lot of people that either have thought about it, I've tried it once or practice it on a regular basis. But it is well known throughout the kink community to be the most dangerous practice sexual practice, because it can cause instant death. And yet, that's the bit that people kind of only touch on at the end. And even the the article that my brother had, you know, had he have read all the way to the end where the warning was, we might not be having this conversation today. But the warning came at the end. It's a bit like, you know, we now have warnings on cigarette packets before people even start smoking yet with something like this. The warning, if it exists, is very often at the end. And 21 year old men don't necessarily want to wait until they've read to the end of something. It's a bit like with IKEA flat pack furniture, who reads all the way to the end of the instructions when they could just give something a go.

Claire : 12:06

Yeah.

Chris: 12:07

Your brother having an article, so was he trying something that he had been reading about?

Sam: 12:11

Yes, yeah. So that was something that I'm aware of that helped with the coroner's investigation, because obviously a death of this nature, there is police investigation, there is a coroner's investigation, and the coroner has to you know, come up with with a ruling. And my understanding is that they did find an article with him with his body. And that was what was able to help with that investigation. All too often that doesn't happen. And sometimes deaths of this manner can be categorised in many different ways. Sometimes they're even categorised as suicide, when they might not actually be suicide, and it's really quite a complex area. And it does obviously require an investigation. And if there were two parties involved, you you do sometimes end up with people having manslaughter or murder investigations because obviously they've survived and their partner hasn't. It is really such a difficult area, I think because society doesn't talk about it and it's kind of hushed up and brushed under the carpet, people think it's not happening but it does happen quite a lot.

Claire : 13:12

What was the coroner's ruling in the end, they how do they categorise it?

Sam: 13:15

So it's categorised as'death by misadventure'. So I worked in the police for 10 years as a crime scene investigator. I think partly because of my brother's death. I wanted to help people piece together how their loved ones have died. So death by misadventure is actually the most common conclusion from coroner's investigations. It's about 24% of coroner's investigations, have a ruling of death by misadventure I lose looking at some statistics and in 2021 it was just shy of 8000 deaths in the UK were categorised as death by misadventure, two huge, huge category. deaths within this category include drugs related deaths, DIY accidents around the home, you know, so anywhere where someone has been doing something, and the act that they've been doing is accidentally led to their death will be classed as death by misadventure. It's really quite a broad category, there is no way because I've been looking into it, there was no way to find out exactly how many deaths in this manner are actually occurring in the UK.

Chris: 14:12

And just to clarify about erotic asphyxiation, is this mainly something that somebody will practice with a partner or on their own or either?

Sam: 14:22

I think it's either really I think I do know of partners that are doing it. I've only spoken to one other person that said that it was autoerotic that led to a friend's passing. I've spoken to two people that have said, I know of a couple where one of them died. While I think a lot of people think 'oh, well, that's safer, because you know, you've got somebody else there'. It obviously depends on the manner in which you choose. So my brother used a belt around his neck, so effectively strangulation and what a lot of people don't understand is that puts pressure on the vagus nerve, which can cause instant heart failure. So it's not just about stopping oxygen from getting into the brain, it's about how that pressure affects the body as well. So while there are many different ways that people practice it, some people use plastic bags, you know, sort of different sort of variants, but you know, is one of the most dangerous and even those that practice it with a partner, there's got to be, I would say, 1,000% trust, that if something goes wrong, that partner is going to be able to support you, and help you and practice first aid. And even those that do, there's no guarantee that actually there will be a good outcome from it. I talk a lot about living wills, people making sure that if this is something that they practice that is written down somewhere, so that people understand that it is something that they do, and they do willingly. So that should the worst happen. There's something to help with that investigation. Because, you know, from having police investigation, crime scene photographs, and all that sort of thing that goes with that, it's a big thing. If there's something there that helps that process speeds it up and helps bring you closure than can only be a good thing.

Claire : 16:02

I can imagine just the confusion and the pain and the grief of losing a child or a brother, you know, is enough on its own. And we've spoken to quite a few people who've been through that, whether natural causes or accidents. But to have, like you said, this element in it of sex that we don't talk about, we found that a lot of people who have lost a child have had people not talking to them anyway would avoid them, because they just don't know what to say, to think that somebody might actually come forward to ask you about it or to talk about it. And to have this extra element put on there where you've got to try and find a way of explaining it, that almost makes them comfortable, but in a way that you might have to explain things you might not want to explain and the complexities of this, I find it heartbreaking that such a grief would not be able to be expressed as openly as you might want to or as other people might be able to with their children, just because of that, that element of having to explain the sex side of it. I presume that's been something that you and your parents have had to deal with all the way along?

Sam: 16:54

Yeah, absolutely. And you know, I can't speak to for my mother, I can only speak for myself. So I was at Sixth Form College when my brother died. When I left college, I cut off all ties with everyone I was at college with, I went away to university and I wanted to start again, I didn't want that memory coming with me. I found at university that it was much, much more difficult than I'd anticipated. To explain how he died, I had people laugh at response, especially other young men would laugh, I had one person really quite adamantly tell me that they'd be suicide, and I was fooling myself. And within a few months, I got to the point, I thought, 'You know what, I'm just not going to talk about this'. So for the rest of my time at university, I just said it was an accident. And I never went into any more detail about it. And that is how I lived my life for very, very long time. Because of people's lack of knowledge, the way people responded, would just bring in me much more pain than I was able to bear. So not only did I not talk about it, but I try not to think about it as well, until my mid 20s, where I developed depression. And surprisingly enough, from from sort of burying these feelings, because of that stigma that taboo around it, it just became easier for me to not even broach the topic for fear of the type of responses I'd get from that.

Chris: 18:18

Quite often in this podcast, we talk about vocabulary and the importance of the words that we use for you to say it was an accident. Now we'll have elicited responses or further questions like oh, what sort of accidents? Did you have a set form of words that you worked on? Or that came to you that you just just said, 'No, I'm not saying anything more'?

Sam: 18:36

I would just shut the conversation down, I was like'it's an accident, that's all you need to know'. And people invariably would obviously fill in their own gaps. Lots of people saying it was a car accident, you know, so so many different things, and I wouldn't correct them, I would just say,'Look, I don't want to talk about it. That's all you need to know.'

Chris: 18:53

Were there any individuals or close friends that that knew well enough, or enough, were interested enough or caring enough to say, let's talk about this, or that had the right words to bring more out from yourself?

Sam: 19:06

Not while I was at university, but I do have one friend who was with me all the way through university, and we're still friends today. And she's very much helped me and supported me through the journey I've gone through. She's dealt with her own grief through losses in her own life. And she's always been there and supported me and understood my reasons. Why I've either held things back, or that now I've decided, you know, yes, it's taken me 25 years, but I don't want to hide it anymore, it's part of who I am. I don't want to pretend that that doesn't exist. I don't want to bury that anymore. And I think it's important to talk about this. I think it's important that people understand that if they are in this same situation, they're not on their own. They're really really not on their own, which is where I felt I was in my teenage years. I thought you know, no one else has ever experienced this. This is beyond heartbreaking. But then as you get older you realise that actually, this is probably more common than any of us realise.

Claire : 19:59

And I'm guessing when you went through it, I'm just trying to do the maths, this is all pre internet stuff, wasn't it? Yeah. So you could hide it if you needed to and kind of let the information out as and when you wanted to. But I guess a lot of people going through it now more recently haven't got that luxury, because you could Google the name and potentially find out about the details.

Sam: 20:16

Yeah, absolutely. So I think for our family, that's the fortunate thing. If there is a fortunate thing, is that obviously, while there's a newspaper article, it's not online, if I want to find that information, I'd really have to put some effort into go and find that that is not the case anymore. And every time someone dies in this manner, the media think it's a great story, because let's face it, sex sells, whether it's good or bad. And so not only is it in newspapers, but it's on social media, and and then you cannot escape it, it is everywhere. You cannot hide from it. We know that, you know, the tabloid newspapers aren't sitting there thinking about what does the family behind this person? What do they think about us sharing this story? That's not their primary concern? And it certainly, you know, it wasn't back when I was 16. I do definitely feel for people these days with how social media and how far those stories can travel and how quickly they can travel and that you can't escape them.

Claire : 21:11

How did you sort of navigate it at that age as well, because they're quite key years on, there's a lot going on, you've got a lot of hormones flooding around, it's hard to work out just as a general teenager, how you're feeling? What what did that look like from that sort of like 16-20 type time for you?

Sam: 21:26

Oh, goodness, I'd like to say that I threw myself into uni work. But I probably didn't, I kind of did. And I wanted to not reinvent myself. But I wanted to make sure that that that wasn't what was going to define me, which is why I think I shut myself off from the people. I've been at college where they went away, and I thought, You know what I want to start afresh, I want this to be totally different. And this is this is how my life my life is going to be. But I didn't have a lot of long term relationships didn't last very long. I think if I found that I had to start broaching that topic, that subject that it was a case of all right, okay, I'm done. Now that and let's move on. So in some ways, it probably did affect my relationship with others. I think I was probably almost into my third year before I got really what I would classify as sort of like a serious relationship with someone. And that was about six months, you know, when I'm talking about serious so that, you know, that was the limit. And I think that that stuck with me through my 20s as well, that happened to get to that stage where you were broaching this this topic to explain what was going on in in my life. And how it impacted me I think was really difficult. When I was at six one before I left I did have I did have a sort of one boyfriend for the entire time. And I feel for him massively because how on earth he managed to cope with my changing moods. Yeah, I would fly off the handle, I would start crying I think that was once broke down in tears in the in the girls bathroo, in college, and all the younger girls were laughing because there was this sixth former in the bathroom crying and things like that, you know, he did really well to stick with me for 18 months to be completely honest, because I probably wouldn't have done looking back on it now. But you don't realise at the time that that's your grief coming through, you have absolutely no concept of that. And like you say, as a teenager, you're dealing with so many other things as well, that it's difficult to unpick what is grief, and what is just growing up and finding out who you are anyway.

Claire : 23:27

I mean, grief is hard enough as an adult, let alone try and do it at that age, everything else going on. I know you said when we spoke before this, that you'd had a whole range of reactions to people when you have actually told them news or when you've been in the presence of people talking about the subject, just give us an idea of what that has ranged from and to.

Sam: 23:44

The one that sticks out for me, it's the one that I tend to share quite a lot is I worked for the police. I worked in the police book for 10 years. And during one situation, there have been a similar sort of death and a quite senior police officer was joking about the fact of you know, the manner of this this person's death. And what were they thinking at the time, I had to politely take him to one side and say, 'I don't know whether you're aware of this, but you know, we talk about how we should watch what we're saying, because we don't know who our audience is. Well, just to let you know, my brother died in the way that you're making jokes to the to the room'. He was absolutely mortified. He really really was, but so was I, because it's so difficult to explain how that feels when there's a room of 30 people or chuckling away at something and you feel that they're laughing at you. You feel like there's this spotlight on you that everyone is looking at you even though no one else in the room has any concept of that. It was that was really, really difficult. And I understand you know, I'm in the place. I understand that there's this element of black humour, but I think it's it's quite indicative of how we react when we hear about autoerotic asphyxiation. And I went to see a comedian, a well known comedian and he was doing a bit of a stint on it as well. And I'm in the audience and everyone's laughing around And I can feel I'm sweating. I'm thinking I can't breathe. And he wanted to get out. But I thought, well, if I get out, is that going to make him say something else because I've left and it's really, really difficult. Joking tends to be the most common response. And it's not just because we're talking about sex. And it's not just because we're talking about death, it's that uncomfortable topic, isn't it? Our default is, if we don't know, let's make a joke. Let's make this lesson comfortable.

Claire : 25:26

Do you think that's why people do joke about it? Because they're uncomfortable with the subject and they don't know where to go? Is it more uncomfortableness than actually finding it funny?

Sam: 25:34

I do think it comes from uncomfortableness, I really, really do. Because I've absolutely no doubt going back to that room or that place, I was talking about it with 30 people in the room, I know there will be people in that room there that will try different things with their sexual practices. It's just, it's just a known fact. So you know, that they're laughing along. But inwardly they're thinking,'Well, hang on a minute, I do that'. But I think it comes from this uncomfortable, you know, let's not, let's not think about how other people have sex, let's not think about that we don't need to, we don't need to sort of delve into that. I do think it comes from trying to make ourselves feel less than comfortable with the topic.

Chris: 26:11

The first example you gave with your colleague in the police force, you're in a really secure place, you you know, your feelings, you know, your position, you've got the competence to just gently take someone aside and say this is inappropriate. But over the 25 years, what have been some of the sort of the headline feelings that you've had inside about dealing with this about how your brother died? Have there been conflicting or confusing emotions that you felt towards your brother or towards this whole cause?

Sam: 26:38

Do you know I think it's really quite an interesting question. Because I never have I've never asked myself why. I've never sort of sat there and gone, you know, why did you do this? Because he was 21. He was single, and, you know, in that's, you know, it's what it's what it's what people do, it's what men do. And so it's never really been that sort of, I've never had that asking myself that that sort of question. And I've never felt conflicted. Yes, I miss him every single day. And do I wish that you've not done it, of course, I wish that you've not done it. And you know, we've all had those feelings of oh, if we'd have just gone down to see him that weekend, if we'd have just done this, but he was still would have just tried it, it would have tried on a different day. It's I think, I don't want to say it's inevitable. But I think because of the nature, the type of person that he was, you know, his personality, I think he was always going to want to explore. So I think at some point, something was always going to happen. So I think I've kind of reconciled with that sort of quite quite early on, though, like I say, having developed depression in my 20s, sort of having someone to talk about and talk that through with most definitely helped me to start to unpick where that was coming from. That's not to say it hasn't caused issues, I've had sort of bouts of depression throughout my life. And they all centre around the male figures in my life and what might happen to them. The most recent one being just before I married my now husband, you know, I was absolutely convinced some it was going to happen to him, and he wasn't going to come home. And it all sort of goes back to that first major loss. It's really quite intricate, I think is the best way to describe it, how it feels to us through everything. It's really difficult to sort of unpack sort of my precise feelings around it all, if that makes sense.

Chris: 28:25

It certainly does. And I think that intricacy is almost like the fragility I look more for the obvious. So you know, when you say you relate stories about college university, people asking you questions, and you just sort of learning to say,'no comment', almost, you know, my assumption would be that's because of embarrassment or shame, something that you're carrying in that regard. But clearly, it's not till it's a lot more you're, you're weaving in how they might react as well as how you might react in all sorts of different things. So it's it's incredibly complex.

Sam: 28:55

It really, really is. And I think I have to be honest, in that it's taken me 25 years to understand that myself. And I think you're absolutely right, in that there will be this assumption that if I, because I don't want to talk about it, that that I feel some shame in how my how my brother died? And I don't, I really don't. And I think a lot of people find that difficult to understand as well. Because you think, you know, well, if that was me, then I would be feeling some shame. But with each sort of different, I suppose in that regard. But yeah, it is very, very complex, very difficult to unpick all those individual emotions from that.

Claire : 29:29

Is there a period when you look back from you know, 16 to now, where you think that was the hardest stage? Was it the initial grief and finding that out? Or what would you say would have been further down the line when you're kind of dealing with it?

Sam: 29:41

It was absolutely further down the line. And I think when I left home and was living by myself, that is when things really started to slide and obviously like I say, I developed depression, and in some, some cases quite severe depression, just through the isolation, loneliness, no one no one to talk to. I actually, I went to work in Bermuda for a couple of years, about almost 10 years ago. And actually, that was really, really incredibly difficult. I went by myself, I didn't know anyone. And again, you get that that isolation. So when we went into lockdown, I was already knowing exactly how people were going to be feeling because I felt like I'd already been through that. And although the loss of my brother wasn't recent, when I was living abroad, I felt it much more keenly, I didn't have my family around me, I didn't have my support network around me. So anniversaries were much, much worse, all the feelings were really heightened because of that isolation. And despite living on a paradise island, it was a really difficult, really difficult couple of years.

Claire : 30:45

And last year, you sort of broke your silence, as it were, and you put up a LinkedIn article talking about it in more depth, and being very honest about it. How was writing that? And how was the response to it?

Sam: 30:57

You know, when I first had this idea, I don't even know why I suddenly decided that I needed to do this. Initially, I wrote it for myself. But I've got a friend who's sort of within the kink community, and she was saying that, you know, there was a lot of articles, there was a lot of support for people out there into sort of not, not that you can do it safely, but but how to practice it in a more safe way. And she felt that if I did want to share it, that there would be interest. And I did want to share it, because 25 years on, we're still not talking about this, there's been so much recently about these Tiktok challenges, these blackout challenges that children and young people are trying, where children have been challenged to hold their breath for the longest time, or to restrict airflow in some way, there have been a couple of children that have died, they've been one that was on life support for quite some time. And while they might not have a sexual element, it's the same thing. We're messing around with the oxygen that our bodies need. And we need to be more open in these conversations about how dangerous these practices are, whether there's a sexual element or not, for me, it felt at the time was why I'd started talking much more about my bereavement journey through the work that I do in workplace wellbeing. And I felt, you know, I'm talking to people about how important storytelling is. And I thought, well, if I'm going to talk about it, I need to talk about it, I need to be that example, I need to be able to share this. And I was really surprised at the love and support. I got off the back of the article, I was fully anticipating a few trolls, or some really unpleasant comments. And there was there was absolutely none of that, which was a massive relief. It's being completely honest. But I'm so glad that that article is out there and that other people can read that and perhaps know that they're not the only person that's experienced this.

Chris: 32:46

To get a sense of where you are with friends that practice breath play, how have your conversations changed with them? What's your balance, sort of interest and warning?

Sam: 32:55

Yeah, it has been quite sort of nuanced. I think there because obviously, I'm interested to know why that particular practice. But equally, I think they completely understand where I'm coming at, you know, they understand what my reticence would be. And it's actually been a really healthy conversation, a really healthy adult conversation to say,'Well, do you know this might happen?' 'Well, yeah, I know that might happen. But equally, I might get hit by a bus crossing the road. So that for me, I weigh up that risk. And I want to take that risk, because this is something I enjoy'. So it has been really good for me. I think a lot of people would just sort of assume that be like, 'Oh, no, don't do it. Don't do it'. But I think my very nature is that I seek to understand the rationale behind why people do things they want to do. It's almost like that psychology element of it. So yeah, it's been really, really quite interesting.

Claire : 33:45

It begs the question, is it worth the risk?

Sam: 33:48

It is an interesting question, which is one that I asked myself quite a lot. But then people jump out of planes with just the thinnest of material to slow their impact down. I would ask myself the question, Is that worth the risk? Probably not. But I'm not an adrenaline junkie, I don't thrive off that kind of risk taking. And I think it comes down to human nature, we'd like to take risks, and taking risks for some people is what really gives them pleasure in life. It's what makes them feel alive. We're never going to stop this. You know, this has been around for a long, long time, you know, since I think the first record of it was in the 1600s. So this is not a new practice. It's been around for a long while. I don't think it's going to go anywhere. But I agree with you. Is it worth the risk?

Claire : 34:34

Just taking selfies nowadays, if you've been to any of the national parks in America and watched how people take selfies, you think the risks people will take with their lives to get something whatever it is that they're after is, you know, can be very extreme. Absolutely. What's your sort of gut reaction? If you hear someone who's going through a similar loss or have you come across people you've actually kind of met or spoken to at all who have been through the same loss or has that not happened?

Sam: 34:57

Only recently I recently I spoke to someone who their partners previous partner had died in in this manner. And I was able to have a really frank conversation with them, which was so so beneficial for me, and hopefully for them. But yes, in 25 years, I've never come across anyone else that said, I'll my close friend, my close family member, it's always sort of, Oh, I know, a friend of a friend, or my neighbor's child, or my neighbor's best friend is something you know, there's always that sort of tenuous link, really.

Claire : 35:30

That's hard because a lot of people who go to different groups, they find a lot of healing. And like you said, there's something about being around people that have experienced the same thing. So to not have have that sort of community can be very difficult, because it's something very freeing about talking with people who know the exact situation and complexities of explaining it away and talking to others and everything else that comes with it.

Sam: 35:50

Absolutely. And I think it's and this is, I think, this is where I came from this potentially thinking while I need to set up a charity, there needs to be something out there. I know, I'm not the only person in the UK that is experienced this, whether this year last year, 25 years ago, there needs to be something out there, there's so much support for all the myriad other ways that people die, there's so much support out there, there's nothing, there's absolutely nothing. When you tie when you look for people that have died to sort of any kind of sex practice, there's just nothing there. It just does not exist as like, we don't want to, we don't want to admit that actually, if you practice sex in certain ways, you might die from it. We don't want to admit that. So that's not put any support out there. Whether that comes from the taboo around it, and that no one else wants to sort of come forward and say yes, 'I've been bereaved in this way'. Or just I honestly don't know, but I know, speaking to my mum 25 years ago, she was saying the same thing. She said, 'Oh, you know, I want to start a charity. I want to do this, and I want want to do that'. Ultimately, she didn't. And as strange as this may sound, I'm glad that she didn't. Because then our entire lives would have become about that charity. And I don't think any of us will, we're ready. And oh, wait 25 years seems a long time to get ready. But I'm certainly in a in a space now where I feel much more comfortable to hold these conversations. I can own my belief, well, I can own that grief and explain what it's done for me. And I can articulate that in a way that I would not have been able to have done sort of 20 odd years ago.

Chris: 37:33

And with a charity in mind, you say there hasn't been or there isn't anything out there. What what would be a priority if you had a charity to put out there?

Sam: 37:43

I think like you said, Claire, I think you'd want that safe space to have conversations with other people that get it that absolutely get it in the same way that we have support and charities for death by suicide. It's very nuanced. And it can impact people in different ways. And especially as a parent, there's going to be guilt there: ''Did I not talk to them enough about sex growing up? Should I have done this? Should I have done the other?', there's all sorts of different elements of that. And you know, and even if you've lost a partner through this way, I think just being able to offer that that peer support and that safe space for people to come together to be able to go yep, I get it. I've gone through this as well. And I've kept it bottled up. And I don't want to do that anymore. That for me, I think would be the most beneficial just so people have the opportunity to be able to say out loud because for 20 forward years, I didn't even say the words out loud, 'autoerotic asphyxiation'. It's not something you say, you know, I think quite a lot. But to actually say it to actually articulate it is really something quite different.

Claire : 38:45

Yeah. And I'd put a lot of money on there being people out there who have lost family members and friends to to either autoerotic asphyxiation or something else in a similar category, where they've not told anybody really and just said, like you said it was an accident, or maybe have even accepted suicide as a reason just to not have to talk about it, and perhaps a hiding the fact that they're dealing with that, because they just don't know how to broach the subject, especially like you said, in a culture like ours, where people just don't talk about sex in that way. So if they could hear of other people going through it, what a lovely thing to be able to connect with to actually, you know, move for the first time get in touch with people and say, Actually, I need to talk about this because I haven't and this is what I went through.

Sam: 39:27

I think so. And I think you know, that's almost the first step in educating younger people so that you know, if this comes up as they're exploring their sexuality, to make sure that they explore all the facets of it before they actually commit to trying it out as an act, you know, so we can get that conversation out there. We can get that conversation going.

Chris: 39:46

On reflection over 25 years, can you look back and see good that's come out of this sad loss as they've been sort of wrestled with hope and learning to hope in life and things again, what was that side of things be like?

Sam: 39:59

I think for me, it's definitely shaped who I have become as a person as an adult. I probably, I wouldn't say took risks, but I went for opportunities that I probably wouldn't have done. Otherwise, you kind of have that conversation with yourself almost like, 'well, what's the worst that can happen? Or will the worst has already happened? So perhaps I can give this a go'. So I probably did take more opportunities than I would have done otherwise. It's so difficult because because I was 16, I don't know who I would have become, I don't know who I might have been. Otherwise, I might, and obviously, will, will never know who I might have been otherwise, this has been my trajectory, which shaped every part of me and part of who I've become and how I've lived my life.

Chris: 40:41

That was obvious with working for a police force, you said that, you know, you wanted to help people pieced together, maybe things that didn't make sense after they'd been through tragedies. But then after 10 years with the police, you you stepped out. So clearly there's been another step in a different direction for you and your journey of what to make of life.

Sam: 41:00

Yeah, definitely. When I was at sixth form, I actually was going for forensic science, I was going to become a forensic scientist sit in a lab all day. And then things changed to become crime scene investigator to help sort of pieced those puzzles together and sort of helped become the voice of those that couldn't speak for themselves. After sort of 10 years, I actually developed a chronic condition. So another type of loss. So I had to change my career ever, I say ever so slightly, it's quite significantly, and it's developed into workplace health and well being. So it's still trying to help those that perhaps need a little bit of extra support. I do a lot of advocating for people with chronic illnesses and hidden disabilities, to help them get the things that they need. So there's still a lot of that justice, really, within it. It's just obviously just part of my human nature. But yes, slightly different.

Chris: 41:51

I'm wondering about if you could go back in time and say something or write something for the teenage Sam, what might that be?

Sam: 41:59

For me, if I was able to sort of have a conversation with myself or read something? I think it would definitely be along the lines of you're much stronger than you think you are. Because I think I spent the last 25 years thinking that I'm weak, and that I couldn't handle the grief. You know, he spent a lot of time, you know, people talk about all, you know, getting through your grief. And I think we're all at this point now, where we understand that that just isn't realistic. And that, you know, the grief grows with us. And I think once you learn to understand that you're in a much better place. So I think if someone had told me that 25 years ago, I think I would have probably got to where I am now much quicker.

Claire : 42:35

Has it changed how you view the future at all?

Sam: 42:38

I would say absolutely. And I think now that I've got to this point where I'm able to talk about my brother much more freely, and to articulate my own emotions, I think I've become a much I wouldn't say more well rounded person. But I think I'm just much more aware of who I am now that when I'm anything that I'm doing, I'm much more aware of how I feel about things. And being true to myself and honest with myself is definitely something that I'm taking from sort of like the last sort of five years or so really, I feel much more like the person I should be is the only way to describe that.

Chris: 43:13

So I guess to summarise and to end with - what's your Herman?

Sam: 43:17

I think it comes back to what we were just saying actually, and that you're, you're stronger than you think we need to almost embrace our bereavement, you know, and accept it as it is, I'm not saying that that's going to be easy. And it's going to be something that's going to happen early on. But I think once we embrace all of those emotions, all of those feelings, and we accept the fact that our grief is part of who we are now, it is part of who we are, we can't change it. And it's not going anywhere. And I think once we accept that, and we articulate that, and we live with it, I think that's how we then become stronger.

Claire : 43:57

Such an important message for us to take away from this conversation to apply before we're grieving. Or maybe if we're in the middle of it, you are stronger than you think. One of the reasons people who are grieving don't like being told how strong they are, is they feel they don't have a choice. They don't feel strong enough to handle it. But as Sam says, and maybe you need to hear these words, you are stronger than you think. And no, you won't just get over your grief, but you will grow with it and through it.

Chris: 44:22

To find out more about Sam her work and the article she wrote, we'll put the links for you in our show notes. Our website is www.thesilentwhy.com, if you've not seen that yet, or you can follow us on social media @thesilentwhypod on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, or LinkedIn.

Claire : 44:36

And if you'd like to support my work, that's purely run on donations by your good selves, pop over to www.buymeacoffee.com/thesilentwhy- link in the show notes.

Chris: 44:44

We're finishing this episode with a quote from Malala Yousafzai to encourage Sam and her mission to speak out on this

Claire : 44:52

"When the whole world is silent, even one voice becomes powerful."